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Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

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mmmason8967
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Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby mmmason8967 » January 13th, 2013 6:23 am

Monday will be 成人の日 (Seijin No Hi) or Coming of Age day in Japan, the day when people who became twenty years old in the past year celebrate their entry into adulthood. Kyary Pamyu Pamyu will be 20 on January 29, so the first question is: does Kyary-chan celebrate 成人の日 on Monday or, given that she didn't reach 20 years of age over the past year, does she celebrate it next January?

Kyary-chan's new song 「ふりそでーしょん」 is due for release on January 30, the day after her 20th birthday. I know that furisode is a long-sleeved kimono traditionally worn on 成人の日 but I've no idea what the "shon" at the end of the word means. So the second question is: what does the shon at the end of furisodeeshon mean?

Kyary-chan's Facebook page says: 1月30日発売予定の新曲「ふりそでーしょん」のMusic VideoがYouTubeで公開されました。きゃりーぱみゅぱみゅが成人を迎える(1993年1月29日生まれ)新年のお祝いの曲です。The first sentence says "A video of a new song, scheduled for release on January 30, has been put up on YouTube". I'm having trouble with the second sentence, though. The bit before the date in brackets says something like "Kyary Pamyu Pamyu approaches adultdhood" or possibly "Kyary Pamyu Pamyu coming-of-age", and the bit after the date in brackets says "it is a New Year celebration song". I can't quite see how the two halves of the sentence join together, so the third question is: how does this second sentence work?

And the fourth question is: once Kyary-chan comes of age, do we stop calling her Kyary-chan and start calling her Kyary-san, or doesn't it really work like that?

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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby community.japanese » January 13th, 2013 12:36 pm

マイケルさん、
こんにちは。
Yes; 成人の日 this year is 14th January! We celebrate those who turned 20 years old in or after April 2012 and will turn 20 by the end of March 2013, which corresponds the Japanese academic year (= from April to March).
So, if Kyari-chan's 20th birthday is the end of this month, she'll celebrate her coming-of-age on Monday 14th January! :D

As to ふりそでーしょん, I think it's just her invention: furisode + some word like "generation" or "sensation". I guess she wanted to make a new word sounding "cool".

The sentence on her face book きゃりーぱみゅぱみゅが成人を迎える(1993年1月29日生まれ)新年のお祝いの曲です。 is quite corrupt, so it's not a good example for you to learn from... She wrote "it's a song to celebrate a new year, when Kyarii-pamyu-pamyu is officially recognised as adult". It's not 成人を迎える, but she had to write 成人式を迎える or 成人式に臨む. As I don't know what exactly she wanted to write, I cannot give you a correct sentence, but 「・・・成人を迎える新年」 sounds strange too. Maybe she wanted to say both "new start" and "the year I become adult".

And lastly, I don't think you need to stop calling her with -chan suffix :lol:
Don't worry! :wink:

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

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mmmason8967
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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby mmmason8967 » January 14th, 2013 3:44 am

奈津子さん wrote:Yes; 成人の日 this year is 14th January! We celebrate those who turned 20 years old in or after April 2012 and will turn 20 by the end of March 2013, which corresponds the Japanese academic year (= from April to March).
So, if Kyari-chan's 20th birthday is the end of this month, she'll celebrate her coming-of-age on Monday 14th January!

分かりました。説明していただきありがとうございます。

As to ふりそでーしょん, I think it's just her invention: furisode + some word like "generation" or "sensation". I guess she wanted to make a new word sounding "cool".

Oh, thanks! Now I get it! :)

And "furisodation" seems to work: it sounds like it means getting and wearing a furisode in the same way that "coronation" means getting and wearing a crown.

The sentence on her face book ... is quite corrupt, so it's not a good example for you to learn from...

Well, English language Facebook and blogs are full of spelling mistakes and bad grammar, so I suppose the same thing is true of Japanese Facebook and blogs. At present I can't tell the difference between things that are hard to understand because I'm a beginner and things that are hard to understand because they aren't correct.  :?

And lastly, I don't think you need to stop calling her with -chan suffix :lol:

As it happens, the name-suffix is a Japanese convention that I actually feel. Let me explain. I've learned, for example, that -masu verbs are more polite than verbs in dictionary form. But I don't feel it: I know that 食べます is more polite than 食べる but it doesn't actually feel more polite to me. However, using a Japanese name without san, chan, kun or sensei actually feels quite uncomfortable. I guess it must be something I've picked up subliminally from Japanese anime and movies.

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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby community.japanese » January 15th, 2013 9:12 pm

マイケルさん、
currupt Japanese is not only about blogs and so on; there are really really many (or too many) Japanese who cannot use Japanese correctly. They don't even "know" the correct Japanese.
Famous people like kyarii-san have great influence, so I wish they are more careful about languages, but that's just "an old woman speaking" I suppose...

You don't feel "masu" expressions....maybe because you already know keigo? :wink:
"masu" and "desu" expressions are "not-harmful", as I reckon :lol: It's not as polite as keigo, but it's definitely politer
than plain form. Name suffix like -san, -chan, -kun are also like that. It's not as polite as "-sama", but it's definetely
nicer than calling someone withous any suffix.

By the way, please note that ~(して)いただきありがとうございます。 sounds very polite and many Japanese people
use this expression, but it's actually not correct. Please remember the correct one: ~(して)くださってありがとうございます。
Hope マイケルsan will teach the correct Japanese to Japanese people :mrgreen:

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

mmmason8967
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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby mmmason8967 » January 16th, 2013 8:52 am

奈津子さん wrote:...there are really really many (or too many) Japanese who cannot use Japanese correctly. They don't even "know" the correct Japanese. Famous people like kyarii-san have great influence, so I wish they are more careful about languages, but that's just "an old woman speaking" I suppose...

It's the same here. People say "I would of…" when they should say "I would have…", and when they write they confuse "there", "their" and "they're". The mistake that irritates me the most is one that you can see in supermarkets. The supermarkets have special checkouts for people who have a small amount of shopping. These checkouts always have a sign above them that says "10 ITEMS OR LESS". It should be "10 ITEMS OR FEWER".

But let's get back to Japanese...

By the way, please note that ~(して)いただきありがとうございます。 sounds very polite and many Japanese people use this expression, but it's actually not correct. Please remember the correct one: ~(して)くださってありがとうございます。


訂正して下さってあいがとうございます。  :)

I like your version much better! The version that I used is difficult to understand, or it is for me. That is because I think that いただく and 下さる describe the same thing, which is you giving something to me, but that いただく is what I do while 下さる is what you do. So my version seems to be thanking you for something that I am doing, which seems strange. But of course, just because a Japanese phrase seems strange to me does not mean it is wrong!

Also, your version uses the te-form of 下さる, which I understand, and my version uses the masu-stem of いただく, but I have no idea why. So I will be much happier using your correct version!  :D

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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby community.japanese » January 18th, 2013 7:15 pm

マイケルさん、
:lol: That's right! I've seen the "10 items or less" sign! :lol:

Regarding ~いただきありがとうございます (which is actually the wrong one), I hear that almost everyday in Japan.
いただく: humble version of もらう: => expression for you to receive something or some action.
=> Focusing on yourself.
くださる: honourific/respecting version of くれる => expression where you're appreciating for someone else's action.
=> Focusing on someone else (= the action taker, who did a favour to you)

So, if you say ~いただきありがとうございます, it almost means that you're appreciating for you receiving something,
like "thank you very much for (me) receiving ..." :roll: Sounds wrong, right?
When we thank someone, we have to refer to what you're appreciating, not the fact you got something.

If you ever hear this wrong expression somewhere, even if it's in Japan and in formal situation, please just igore that.
Now you know the real correct expression with rationale!! :wink:

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby Javizy » January 18th, 2013 7:39 pm

You mean this girl?

Image

I think I agree with a comment I saw saying 「すげーアホな柄だなw」, but she at least looks presentable.

There was a bit of controversy about ギャル wearing 花魁風 (Oiran style) 振り袖. You can see some pictures and discussion in this thread. 花魁 at least had some class and 教養; the ギャル just look awful, and the 静岡 pictures show you the kind of intellect behind such decisions...

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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby community.japanese » January 18th, 2013 9:30 pm

Javizy-san,
yup, that's her :lol:
and, :lol: "at least she's presentable" :lol:

I might be "old and conservative", but I can't help thinking that those 20-year-old people are now
very immature and don't even understand what this ceremony means by "being acknowledged as adult". :(
If you see any criticism about this girl's way, they might think the similar way as I do.

In last several years, "stupidity" have been welcomed as "charm" in Japan.
Being (or behaving) stupid is almost the same as being (or behaving) cute. That's just wrong, but that's recent
tendency in Japanese society. Anything "looking new" or "seems creative" are "cool" and this girl's design on kimono
is also a "new style". People might be afraid of criticising it because they don't want others to think they're "old-style".
However, this Coming-of-Age means they're now adults, so she might not be a good model when we introduce Japanese culture. :(

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby mmmason8967 » January 19th, 2013 8:50 am

奈津子さん wrote:So, if you say ~いただきありがとうございます, it almost means that you're appreciating for you receiving something,
like "thank you very much for (me) receiving ..." :roll: Sounds wrong, right?
When we thank someone, we have to refer to what you're appreciating, not the fact you got something.

Yes, it does sound wrong. I was not able to understand how it worked. I thought that it must be correct, but that I don't know enough to understand it. I am very pleased that you have told me it is wrong! :D The correct version makes sense and I have no trouble understanding it.

I don't know much about keigo, but I am interested in it. If I say "it is early" and make it more polite (or more formal) by changing one word, is this sequence correct?

はやい
はやいです
はやいである
はやいございます
はようございます
おはようございます

Of course, it is interesting because of the last version of the phrase. I have never seen it explained, so I am very interested to know if this is really how it came to be.

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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby community.japanese » January 19th, 2013 2:32 pm

マイケルさん、
I'm glad to know my explanation helped! :D

Interesting and very wise quistion about "early"!
You can say はやいです in general politeness, and おはようございます can be a choice when you're using a VERY
polite expressions and keigo :wink: And, yes, as you might have thought of already, this おはようございます is
the morning greeting and it did come from the word "early" (= はやく).

Keigo is often said to be difficult, but once you understand the basic rules, it's not that complicated at all.
Keigo involves "respect" to others, so when an expression doesn't concern any other people, you don't have to use
keigo expression for that. For instance, the word "early" can be used in a variety of situations, right?
If you just say "The meeting started early" to someone you should pay respect to, even if the conversation is
between you and to-be-respected person, this sentence itself doesn't have anything to do with the other person; it's
about "the meeting". In this case, you don't have to say おはやく始まりました which sounds strange.

Since you're very good at understanding Japanese, learning keigo should be fun for you! :wink:

Natsuko(奈津子),
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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby mmmason8967 » January 25th, 2013 7:07 am

奈津子さん wrote:As to ふりそでーしょん, I think it's just her invention: furisode + some word like "generation" or "sensation". I guess she wanted to make a new word sounding "cool".

11 long days later, the penny finally drops... :roll:

ふりそでーしょん sounds like "felicitation".

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Re: Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Coming of Age questions

Postby community.japanese » January 25th, 2013 6:35 pm

マイケルさん、
なるほど!"Felicitations with (or of or for or....whatever it is) Furisode" ! :lol:

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Team JapanesePod101.com


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