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31 grammar points in 31 days

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Tracel
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby Tracel » December 9th, 2013 6:54 pm

andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:
I think "ka" would have been correct if the verb was in the casual form:


Yes, you are right that you can omit the 'dou ka' portion to make an embedded question in casual conversation. :D I tend to err on the side of formality though, so it feels more comfortable to me to say the whole thing. Also, maybe it is my age, but talking about someone's funeral seems to be an occasion for gravity and therefore a bit more formality to me. Just an opinion though. :|

トラ :blob:
ごきげんよう、
トラセル

andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » December 10th, 2013 8:34 am

Day 18 - LIS6L1 - Modifying clauses

"Ichi-oku-en ie o tatemashita hito."
The man who built the hundred million yen house.

"Eiyuu wa shoujo ga shinda hannin o tsukamaeru."
The hero who caught the criminal who killed the girl.

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thegooseking
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby thegooseking » December 10th, 2013 11:11 am

andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:Day 18 - LIS6L1 - Modifying clauses
"Eiyuu wa shoujo ga shinda hannin o tsukamaeru."
The hero who caught the criminal who killed the girl.


This is something like: "The hero catches the girl-dying criminal."

I think you would want something more like:-
"Shoujo wo koroshita hannin wo tsukamaeta eiyuu."

charliegchen8215
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby charliegchen8215 » December 10th, 2013 12:28 pm

andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:"Ichi-oku-en ie o tatemashita hito."
The man who built the hundred million yen house.


Luckily in Japanese. Modifying clause is easy. It's the same as a normal sentence but it must be in dictionary form.
一億円の家を建てた人。
いちおくえんのいえをたてたひと。

thegooseking
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby thegooseking » December 10th, 2013 12:35 pm

charliegchen8215 wrote:Luckily in Japanese. Modifying clause is easy. It's the same as a normal sentence but it must be in dictionary form.


Minor correction: It has to be in a plain (or "informal") form, not necessarily dictionary form ;)

charliegchen8215
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby charliegchen8215 » December 10th, 2013 1:00 pm

Oops yes you are right. Plain form. :D

andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » December 10th, 2013 1:26 pm

thegooseking wrote:
andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:Day 18 - LIS6L1 - Modifying clauses
"Eiyuu wa shoujo ga shinda hannin o tsukamaeru."
The hero who caught the criminal who killed the girl.


This is something like: "The hero catches the girl-dying criminal."

I think you would want something more like:-
"Shoujo wo koroshita hannin wo tsukamaeta eiyuu."


You're right about "koroshita" but if I can quote a PDF sample sentence so you can see something similar:

"Neko wa watashi ga katta pan o tabeta nezumi o tsukamaeta."

Now my sentence (with corrections):

"Eiyuu wa shoujo ga koroshita hannin o tsukamaeta."

I think I was close and you didn't need to move the "eiyuu" to the end. That created another clause, which is what I think you were going for, but I deliberately wanted to try to do a sentence with the subject at the beginning.

thegooseking
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby thegooseking » December 10th, 2013 1:55 pm

I think if you do that, you're changing it from descriptive to active ("The hero caught..."), which is perfectly valid, but your English translation is descriptive ("The hero who caught...), which is why I was trying to create another clause ;)

'Shoujo' is the direct object of 'koroshita', so the particle would be 'wo'. What you have with 'ga' in there is "The hero caught the criminal whom the girl killed."

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andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » December 11th, 2013 12:16 am

Day 19 - LIS5L25 - Past tense

"Ashita wa, anata no tanjoubi deshita yo ne?"
Tomorrow was your birthday, wasn't it?

"Oboeta! Ato de, saakasu no hanabi taikai deshita! Issho ni itta yo ne?"
I remembered! Later was the circus's fireworks display. We were going together, right?

mewes6190
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby mewes6190 » December 11th, 2013 1:24 pm

andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:Day 19 - LIS5L25 - Past tense

"Ashita wa, anata no tanjoubi deshita yo ne?"
Tomorrow was your birthday, wasn't it?


I know, that you can use the past tense to ask about future events in English and German, but is it possible in Japanese too?

charliegchen8215
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby charliegchen8215 » December 11th, 2013 1:28 pm

andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:Day 19 - LIS5L25 - Past tense

"Ashita wa, anata no tanjoubi deshita yo ne?"
Tomorrow was your birthday, wasn't it?

"Oboeta! Ato de, saakasu no hanabi taikai deshita! Issho ni itta yo ne?"
I remembered! Later was the circus's fireworks display. We were going together, right?


「明日」は英語の文法と同じく過去形になりません。従って「でした」が使えないわけです。昨日や先週や、過去の時点である限り過去形が使えるようになります。
You can't use past tense if you are talking about the future. This is also true for English (most of the time). If you say Kinou or Senshuu or any other timeframe in the past, then it will be okay.

Yes in English sometimes you can use past tense but usually this is to do with future perfect and relative future and involves other words like will, going to etc. in Japanese it is much simpler. If it is non past, you can't use past tense. Easy!

I remembered might be better expressed as 思い出した。Omoidashita.

andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » December 11th, 2013 1:44 pm

mewes6190 wrote:
andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:Day 19 - LIS5L25 - Past tense

"Ashita wa, anata no tanjoubi deshita yo ne?"
Tomorrow was your birthday, wasn't it?


I know, that you can use the past tense to ask about future events in English and German, but is it possible in Japanese too?


From the PDF:

Image

charliegchen8215
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby charliegchen8215 » December 11th, 2013 2:03 pm

andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:
mewes6190 wrote:
andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:
From the PDF:

Image


It's best to keep things simple. The example in the book has less to do with past tense and more to do with psychology and the particle け.

明日、テストだっけ and 明日、テストだったっけ mean exactly the same but the latter convey that the speaker was sure that was the fact but cannot recall now but wants to make sure. The っけ grammar construct is also needed here as without it, the latter would not make sense.

In fact テストは明日だっけ。makes more sense. 明日はテストがあったっけ。is also fine. け comes from けり and can only attach itself to だ or た。

andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » December 12th, 2013 6:44 am

Day 20 - LIS5L24 - Rashii

"Yakusoku o mamoranakereba, isha ga okoru rashii."
If you don't keep your appointment, the doctor will get angry, I hear.

I know "yakusoku" means "appointment" and also "promise" but not sure if "mamoru" works in "to keep an appointment" as it would in "to keep a promise."

charliegchen8215
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby charliegchen8215 » December 12th, 2013 12:41 pm

定期的に診てもらわないと、お医者さんに怒られるらしい。
teikitekini mitemorawanaito, oishasanni okorareru rashii.

To keep an appointment is an English idiom that can mean to make regular appointments. Idioms don't translate at all between languages so it will depend on what you mean by "to keep an appointment". It could also mean not cancelling an appointment in which case it would be

予約をキャンセルすると、お医者さんに怒られるらしい。
Yoyaku wo kyanseru suruto, oishasanni okorareru rashii.

Also it is better to use 'to' instead of 'ba' as getting the doctor angry is not a desired effect.

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