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Some questions, requesting help!

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yourhead
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Some questions, requesting help!

Postby yourhead » November 20th, 2007 4:59 am

どういたしまして。
Do(u) itashimashite.
"You're welcome."

How does the spacing works in a sentence structure?
In "どういたしまして。" There is no spacing in-between the characters, however in Romaji, there is a spacing between "Do" and "itashimashite".

In some of the resources, there is a hyphen on the top of the alphabet O in "Do". In written form, it becomes "Dou", with an additional "u". Does the hyphen mean there will be an additional "u"?

Shaydwyrm
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Re: Some questions, requesting help!

Postby Shaydwyrm » November 20th, 2007 5:04 am

yourhead wrote:How does the spacing works in a sentence structure?
In "どういたしまして。" There is no spacing in-between the characters, however in Romaji, there is a spacing between "Do" and "itashimashite".

Japanese doesn't really use spaces. Usually the kanji will tell you where a new word starts.

In some of the resources, there is a hyphen on the top of the alphabet O in "Do". In written form, it becomes "Dou", with an additional "u". Does the hyphen mean there will be an additional "u"?

Yes. The "hyphen" is called a macron, and it means that the vowel sound is lengthened.

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yourhead
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Postby yourhead » November 20th, 2007 5:32 am

I see..
So, is it possible to end any sentence with a full-stop without any spacing in-between?

For example:

どうも ありがとうございます

Domo Arigato gozaimasu.

Thank you very much.

If I remove the spacing in "どうも ありがとうございます", will the sentence be legit?
Last edited by yourhead on November 20th, 2007 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Shaydwyrm
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Postby Shaydwyrm » November 20th, 2007 5:36 am

Even Japanese adults find it quite annoying to read passages with no spaces and no kanji, or at least that's what I hear. I recommend starting to learn kanji as soon as possible :roll:

yourhead
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Postby yourhead » November 20th, 2007 5:40 am

Kanji... though I am trying hard to memorise Hiragana..

In other words, we can choose when/where to put spacing?

*edit*

Oh, I did some edits on my second post..

Shaydwyrm
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Postby Shaydwyrm » November 20th, 2007 6:09 am

Some books for young children are written only in hiragana/katakana and have spaces. Also some teaching materials that I've seen (up to 2nd grade or so) had spaces in them.

どうもありがとうございます is correct Japanese, and you will see this sentence written like this, since there are no common kanji for these words. I think the usual way to write it with spaces is どうも ありがとう ございます, but I can't be sure - my time as a Japanese 1st grader was relatively short.

I didn't mean to pressure you to start learning kanji immediately - for sure, learn the kana first! As I said, low-level learning materials will often include spaces, so it's fairly easy to read with just kana.

yourhead
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Postby yourhead » November 20th, 2007 6:35 am

I see.. thanks alot Shaydwyrm, I learnt new things today!

F.y.i, I am on self-study and do not intend to take any outside courses/lessons.. pretty tight schedule, but I have some spare time with me and would like to use it for Japanese.

Do you mind sharing any effective studying tips?
I have this goal in mind - to be able to read or understand resources like newspapers,books, drama etc, and do good in conversation.

From your perspective, how should one begin on his way to learning Japanese?

Thanks again.

Shaydwyrm
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Postby Shaydwyrm » November 20th, 2007 7:23 am

Heh, that's a dangerous question to ask me, I think :wink:

Learning the kana is a good start. If you're having trouble, many people swear by James Heisig's books "Remembering the Hiragana" and "Remembering the Katakana".

Once you've gotten through the kana, if you're feeling ambitious, I highly recommend his better-known and somewhat controversial "Remembering the Kanji Volume 1", with the caveat that it's only worth starting if you're willing to invest enough time to 1) finish all 2000 kanji, and 2) learn to read afterwards. It's not for everyone, but if you're going to aim for literacy (which you seem to be), I think it's the best way to go. I think you probably have some way to go before you'll feel the need for it right now though; just something to keep in mind for the future.

For learning basic conversation grammar and stuff, well, what can I recommend but jpod101? :D Also take a look at Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese (www.guidetojapanese.org).

If you don't know it yet, Jim Breen's WWWJDIC is a great online dictionary (http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html), especially for kanji. There are other excellent dictionaries out there too.

Those are the top three free online resources I can think of. If you want a textbook/need a more guided feeling, the Genki series has a very good reputation. For grammar reference, "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar" and the sequel volume are the ones I like best.

I'm going to cut myself off now :roll:

つまり, learn the kana, work on jpod101.com, and see how much time you have, and how much you like learning the language. If you're enjoying it and have extra time, any of the resources above will be able to help you broaden your experience. There's plenty more available too, so don't be shy about asking.

Oh, and one more thing. For making sure you remember what you learn, I very strongly recommend that you look into a flashcard program with an SRS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition) - my favorite is Anki (http://anki.repose.cx/), but Mnemosyne and SuperMemo are other popular ones, along with iFlash for mac users. Especially if you're doing indepent study, this will really improve your retention without increasing your workload more than is necessary.

Whew! Good luck!

yourhead
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Postby yourhead » November 20th, 2007 7:58 am

:lol: :lol:

I think I will be able to achieve this goal with these information :P

Though it takes time to learn..

I have a lot more questions to ask.. but I couldn't seem to recall any of it. (It is something to do with words like zettai, zutto, etc)

I will stop here for now.. some assignments left undone :cry:

Be back later!

どうもありがとうございます!! :lol:

markystar
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Postby markystar » November 20th, 2007 8:53 am

どうも ありがとうございます


actually, this is correct if you were going to use spacing.
どうも is one word, and ありがとうございます is an archaic japanese constuction (ございます would be connected to the adjective).

but then again, i'm not sure who invented the "spacing rules" since the japanese themselves don't really them.

my favorite is Anki (http://anki.repose.cx/),


i second this! anki is great!
ねぇ、ねぇ、私前にバンドキャンプでさ…

yourhead
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Postby yourhead » November 21st, 2007 9:42 am

I am glad I am able to recall some questions... so here they are.

First Question


Itadakimasu.

Watashi wa ___ - jin desu.

desu ka?

I realised that some people don't pronounce "su".

So "I - ta - da - ki - ma - su" will sound like "i - ta - da - ki - mas".

And "desu ka?" will sound like "des - ka".

With "de-su" as "des".

What's the difference between pronouncing "su" and omiting the "u" ?



Second Question

Department store - デパ

Is there a term for "-"? How do one use "-" ? Or does it applies only to Katakana..?

Shaydwyrm
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Postby Shaydwyrm » November 21st, 2007 2:33 pm

yourhead wrote:What's the difference between pronouncing "su" and omiting the "u" ?

Syntactically, nothing. It's a style difference. I think there's another thread on the board right now that tries to address this. One thing to note is that the "u" is generally not dropped when it precedes voiced consonants. For example, すな is pronounced "suna", with the "u" sound intact.

Is there a term for "-"? How do one use "-" ? Or does it applies only to Katakana..?

I haven't heard a specific term for it. It does apply only to katakana though.

kitty-chan
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Postby kitty-chan » November 21st, 2007 4:13 pm

that /u/ sound can be dropped anywhere....

if it's an /uu/ it can't.....


but don't worry about it so much, when you speak, repeat what you've heard time and time again, you'll probably be ok♪

naruru
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Postby naruru » January 10th, 2008 1:48 am

始めまして~
How do you do!

日本語で、スペースあってないです。英語でスペースがあります。
There's no space in Japanese like we do in English.

毎日日本語を読むといつもスペースを考えません。分かりますか。
If you learn and read Japanese every day (or any day you like or feel like), you won't have to worry or think about the spaces. Do you understand? ^^

tiger
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Postby tiger » January 11th, 2008 2:08 am

naruru-san, watashi mo sou to omoimasu.

さいしょは、 はやく ひらがな を おぼえたら、もうすぐ かんたん な にほんご よめる。 

The following is difficult to read with no spaces...

ふつうのぶんは、かんじをつかわないし、スペースがないと、よめるのがむずかしいですよ。すこしかんじがおぼえたら、かんたんなぶんがもっとよみやすくなるとおもいます。

Learn a little kanji and slowly the reading will become easier even without spaces...

普通の文は、漢字を使わないし、スペースがないと、読めるのが難しいですよ。少し漢字が覚えたら、簡単な文がもっと読みやすくなると思います。

Keep writing hiragana (don't get lazy) and soon you will recognize them like ABC.

Notice, in Japanese it doesn't matter if the word follows on to the next line.

Sorry if this was too difficult, but I just wanted to show regular writing (apart from my grammar mistakes) and it gets easier once you use hiragana.

I say, do AWAY with romaji, what's the point?

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