What Does this Mean?!

[gambit_2001nz]

Here is an interesting article on some Japanese words that are a little difficult to translate into english.

Have a look and see if you guys can shed a little light on it.

http://www.japan-hopper.com/2006/08/23_17221.php

[Alan]

Well 'yokatta' is the past tense of 'yoi' which is good. Mostly it seems to translate as 'Thank goodness'.

I think 'yabai' can imply illegality as well as risk, although I'm not sure on that one, because noone's used that on me. What have you been doing

Again I'm not sure about 'sorasora', but 'sora' is kansai-ben for 'sore wa', which is 'that is', so I reckon 'sorasora' means 'Look Look!'. Hey, I've remembered some Kansai-ben. Hooray.

Edit: Ah you said 'sorosoro' not sorasora'. Now I'm stuck. Check the dictionary... Wow, it's in there: 'Slowly, leisurely, soon.' I guess you are a bit impatient?


Alan

[Brody]

Welcome to the real world!
As you delve more and more into learning Japanese as a second language, you'll find that natural English and natural Japanese don't translate straight across. I think that's what is so great about learning a new language: you find new, different ways to express yourself.

I know soro soro is something like "about to, about time." My Japanese teacher would say something like, そろそろ始まりましょう。 to call us in from break, meaning "class is about to start," and when you're ready to leave to go back home you can say something like "it's about time I got going" そろそろ帰る

Just think of 'yabai" in the ways Americans use words like "bad." "Bad" normally has a negative nuance but in slang terms can mean "good."

I'm glad you presented this article. These kinds of words are what make languages fun to study.

[Belton]

I always took よかった to be I'm glad. in an oblique way by saying something was good.
Someone tells me about something I reply よかった to indicate I'm glad you did that or glad that happened. or sometimes more neutral where English would be "that's nice". A lot might be in the intonation.


そろそろ　　I use it as time is getting on./ gotta go can't remember where I first found it though. The feeling seems to be that something is about to happen but not suddenly.
I think it's part of a group of words called gitaigo. I've lent my book about them to someone. But the Oh sounds imply dullness sluggishness usually I think. On the whole they are probably hard to give direct translations but I really like them. ごろごろ is a favourite suggesting a rolling barrel , ゴロゴロします　to lie around doing nothing (veg out, be a coach potato) . also ワクワク to be excited. is another favourite.


やばい！. Oh no! and various interjections like this. I think it was a contraction of abunai to begin with.
and probably also the opposite in the way that bad can mean good. kids these days!!
I think it's like Humpty Dumpty says "a word can mean whatever I want it to mean! "


Small interjections are the hardest thing to map onto another language as Brody san said. You can really only try to understand the feeling behind them.
And slang changes quickly and goes in and out of fashion and tends to be used by specific groups and if you're not of that group you at best sound strange at worst sound ridiculous.

---edit----
for clarity, I only consider yabai to be slang and even then, more so the reverse meaning usage. (does that make sense?)

[Bueller_007]

I always took よかった to be I'm glad. in an oblique way by saying something was good.
Someone tells me about something I reply よかった to indicate I'm glad you did that or glad that happened. or sometimes more neutral where English would be "that's nice". A lot might be in the intonation.


そろそろ　　I use it as time is getting on./ gotta go can't remember where I first found it though. The feeling seems to be that something is about to happen but not suddenly.
I think it's part of a group of words called gitaigo. I've lent my book about them to someone. But the Oh sounds imply dullness sluggishness usually I think. On the whole they are probably hard to give direct translations but I really like them. ごろごろ is a favourite suggesting a rolling barrel , ゴロゴロします　to lie around doing nothing (veg out, be a coach potato) . also ワクワク to be excited. is another favourite.


やばい！. Oh no! and various interjections like this. I think it was a contraction of abunai to begin with.
and probably also the opposite in the way that bad can mean good. kids these days!!
I think it's like Humpty Dumpty says "a word can mean whatever I want it to mean! "


Small interjections are the hardest thing to map onto another language as Brody san said. You can really only try to understand the feeling behind them.
And slang changes quickly and goes in and out of fashion and tends to be used by specific groups and if you're not of that group you at best sound strange at worst sound ridiculous.

The writer of the article is, by his/her own admission, pretty much Japanese-illiterate. None of these words are particularly difficult.

そろそろ="It's about that time." (It can also mean "gradually")

やばい means "dangerous", "no good". But it also means "good", "cool". And it can also modify other adjectives. やばいおいしい. It's a little bit vulgar and old people supposedly really dislike this word. Basically, it's an all-purpose off-colour Japanese word, and their equivalent of "f*cking". "F*cking dangerous", "f*cking delicious", "f*cking sweet!", "f*cked up", "f*cking handsome", etc. (Although the level of vulgarity is nowhere near as severe as the f-word in most circles.)

よかった is simply the past tense of よい, so it just means "was good". Applied, it means "that was lucky", or "I'm glad that happened."

Incidentally, as I recall, there was a kind of a survey amongst translators a few years ago. The question was something like "What is the hardest word (in any language) to translate?"

The winner was "なあ", the sentence-ending Japanese particle, particularly common in Osaka dialect.

[Higurashi]

Hm? Isn't なあ in the same league as よ and ね？ Whats so difficult about it?

[Bueller_007]

Hm? Isn't なあ in the same league as よ and ね？ Whats so difficult about it?

Just checked the goo entry for なあ. Mostly used by men, here are the potential meanings:
1) expresses that one is impressed or admires something
2) used merely for emphasis (even about things that one is not impressed with and does not admire)
3) used merely to express one's own consensus with what someone else has said. otherwise, may be used to invite a response from the listener
4) used as an expression of hope or desire
5) used to break up one's sentences to get the listener's attention an invite them to listen more closely to what you're saying.

Here, I found the article.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3830521.stm

Apparently, the survey was done amongst linguists, not translators. And It wasn't the winner. It came in third. My bad.

Personally, I would just translate なあ as "yeah".

"That was a good movie, yeah?"

[Alan]

I think it's part of a group of words called gitaigo. I've lent my book about them to someone. But the Oh sounds imply dullness sluggishness usually I think. On the whole they are probably hard to give direct translations but I really like them. ごろごろ is a favourite suggesting a rolling barrel , ゴロゴロします　to lie around doing nothing (veg out, be a coach potato) . also ワクワク to be excited. is another favourite.

Interesting, I keep running across these in anime. ぺらぺら (to chat fluently, particularly used for foreign languages) is my favourite. If only... I've also come across ぴかぴか (twinkle-twinkle) - as in twinkle, twinkle little star. In 'bare-foot gan', ぴか was used to describe the nuclear flash. There's also ぷにぷに (squishy). These all express ideas rather than sounds. There's also a bunch for expressing sound, although I'm not sure whether repeating the word twice is just for effect in those cases - I think くうくう is snoring, but I'm not sure on that one - need to look it up sometime.

[Bueller_007]

I think it's part of a group of words called gitaigo. I've lent my book about them to someone. But the Oh sounds imply dullness sluggishness usually I think. On the whole they are probably hard to give direct translations but I really like them. ごろごろ is a favourite suggesting a rolling barrel , ゴロゴロします　to lie around doing nothing (veg out, be a coach potato) . also ワクワク to be excited. is another favourite.

Interesting, I keep running across these in anime. ぺらぺら (to chat fluently, particularly used for foreign languages) is my favourite. If only... I've also come across ぴかぴか (twinkle-twinkle) - as in twinkle, twinkle little star. In 'bare-foot gan', ぴか was used to describe the nuclear flash. There's also ぷにぷに (squishy). These all express ideas rather than sounds. There's also a bunch for expressing sound, although I'm not sure whether repeating the word twice is just for effect in those cases - I think くうくう is snoring, but I'm not sure on that one - need to look it up sometime.

You're referring to 擬態語 (gitaigo, mimetics) and 擬音語 (giongo, onomatopoeics).

ぐうぐう is definitely the latter, but in some cases it's not so clear cut. ごろごろ is, I believe also a giongo. It represents the actual sound of something rolling.

[Belton]

ごろごろ is, I believe also a giongo. It represents the actual sound of something rolling.

I wonder.
What I was taught was that it's giongo if it's mimicking the sound directly -- in use. like the English -- the rock went splosh into the pond. But while derived from the sound of rolling objects when lolling about I don't actually make the sound therefore it's not giongo.
I could be wrong.
The only book I've found on the subject "How to Jazz up your Japanese with Onomatopoeia" Kodansha tended to lump everything together rather than explore the difference in categories. That said it has a very interesting essay as an introduction then lots of examples of usage with an indication of negative, positive, neutral tones.

Alan -san
I forgot ぷにぷに　That's a great one.
As for the doubling for effect thing, I wish I had that book here. There seems to be some rules involved. (such a wonderful and regular language!) So a base sound / idea of sound almost declines like a verb.


---
off topic
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Beuller-san would it be rude of me to ask you to edit your quotes? You can be a bit intimidating so when I see, my whole post quoted I think, Oh God what (many) stupid things have I said that Beuller has picked up on now? When in fact I don't think anything you said was specifically about what I had written rather than the general topic.
---

[Bueller_007]

I have a tendency to just hit the "quote" button.

If it makes you feel better, I can hit the "Post reply" button.


And the purpose of doubling onomatopoeia is simple: it's used for repetitive actions.