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Arrogance in learning a language

Learn more about the community and how they are learning Japanese and about Japan. Do a little listener-to-listener chit chat. Keep it civil, and everything else goes.

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QuackingShoe
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Postby QuackingShoe » September 28th, 2008 5:21 pm

But you can use either へ or に with (some) movement verbs, which is what they were talking about, and where the question of distinction comes in.

Learning Conjugations from the -masu stem is kindof awkward... as evidenced by, among other things, the necessity to put the irregulars into -masu form just to differentiate them. Weird that they'd teach it to you that way...

For the record, though, 行く doesn't conjugate into 行て. It conjugates to 行って.

JamieJoystick
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Postby JamieJoystick » September 28th, 2008 5:32 pm

QuackingShoe wrote:But you can use either へ or に with (some) movement verbs, which is what they were talking about, and where the question of distinction comes in.

Learning Conjugations from the -masu stem is kindof awkward... as evidenced by, among other things, the necessity to put the irregulars into -masu form just to differentiate them. Weird that they'd teach it to you that way...

For the record, though, 行く doesn't conjugate into 行て. It conjugates to 行って.


Yea Thats What I Mean. You Can Only Use へ When Using A Movement Verb. But Cant When Just Using A Direction Of An Object Or Something...

Oh And Sorry About The Whole Quote Thing In My Other Comment lol.

And Yea I Know Its 行って. That Was My Spellign Mistake. Plus I Just Copied And Pasted When I Re Did It Hahaha.

Sorry Guys.

And Theres More Normal Verbs Than Irregular Verbs So Its Alot Easier Learning That Song. Especially When Your Sitting There In An Exam And You Need To Put A Verb Into て Form but You CanT Think Of It.. So You Sit There And Sing A Song Thats Been Drilled Into Your Head That Tells You All The Answers To It.. Except The Irregulars Lol But I Mean If You Need That Irregular than You Should Learn Its て Form Separately Anyway.

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Belton
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Postby Belton » September 28th, 2008 7:45 pm

@untmdsprt-san
The poor ability of Japanese English teachers is legendary. As I was told by a Japanese English teacher friend! It's scary actually. The schools should really spend some money and send them off on exchange programs each summer, or courses in modern language teaching techniques.

@JamieJoystick-kun

eh~~, You've Found A Very Difficult To Read Style Using Capitals For Every Word.

You have first hand experience of how native speakers do not necessarily make the best teachers unless they are trained in how to teach.
Grammar just isn't important to native speakers. They just do it. That's how spoken language works. It's very interesting to read about how children develop language and the theories about what is happening. It appears they find the rules and exceptions out for themselves by a systematic trial and error system.
cf.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Language-Basics ... 415340195/

Second language learners might have a better knowledge of the grammar explanations and rules but it still takes many years before they can loose the small signs that show they aren't a native speaker. (In terms of style, vocabulary, accent)
Also the non-native can be trapped into a language description of when their grammar was written. Language is constantly shifting. In Japanese the one I seem to notice is watakushi instead of watashi。It seems to carbon date some non-native speakers.




My favourite story about arrogance in language is when a group of German academics insisted on writing the summary of a conference "because their English was better".

JamieJoystick
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Postby JamieJoystick » September 28th, 2008 9:19 pm

Oh Im Sorry, Its Kinda Like A Smaller Version Of OCD. I CanT Help it Lol.

Yea I Understand Completly Where Everyone Is Coming From, Pretty Much To Be Good At Your Own Language I Think You Would Have To Be Good At Another Language To Look At The Differences And Then Try your Own Language Again, Grammar And All. Then You Could Become A Writer? LOL
This Isnt Me.

Its Actually A Comlete Random.

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Javizy
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Postby Javizy » September 29th, 2008 12:19 am

JamieJoystick wrote:Oh Im Sorry, Its Kinda Like A Smaller Version Of OCD. I CanT Help it Lol.

You'll probably start to regret it in a few years, especially if you don't use a separate hand to press shift. RSI is rife nowadays.

JamieJoystick
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Postby JamieJoystick » September 29th, 2008 8:55 am

Javizy wrote:
JamieJoystick wrote:Oh Im Sorry, Its Kinda Like A Smaller Version Of OCD. I CanT Help it Lol.

You'll probably start to regret it in a few years, especially if you don't use a separate hand to press shift. RSI is rife nowadays.


Omg you Dont Know The Half Of It Lol. I Already Got It In A smaller Way...
But Yea I Just Cant Help It =/

I try to stop it.. like now.. its just.. arrgghhh its painful to see lol.
This Isnt Me.



Its Actually A Comlete Random.



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jkid
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Postby jkid » September 29th, 2008 2:06 pm

Just make yourself not type like that otherwise, besides RSI when it comes to writing papers for College or in a job you are really going to struggle. Do your best to break the habit.

andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: Arrogance in learning a language

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » May 18th, 2013 7:00 am

GaijinPot is great for this kind of sociopathy. For example:

I find that sort of behaviour amongst a surprising number of foreigners in Kyoto, usually the ones that have been there for 5 or 6 years, and assume they are the top of the heap. My better Japanese can help or hurt the diffidence depending on the person. Mind you, I was once swung at by one of the writers of the Lonely Planet Japan for being better, so keep your distance.


http://forum.gaijinpot.com/showthread.p ... wkwardness

They're so good at Japanese that other foreigners want to fight them! :lol:

community.japanese
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Re: Arrogance in learning a language

Postby community.japanese » May 18th, 2013 9:33 pm

andy-san,
thank you for sharing the information! :wink:

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com


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