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Peter's pronunciation

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untmdsprt
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Postby untmdsprt » June 19th, 2009 7:21 am

Theodore wrote:I'm not sure if the fact that I'm Asian that gave me the advantage over people from else where but I believe there are some other factors here:

Anyway, I can't learn to speak English by watching people's tongues because I can't get close enough and it's rather dark in their. Will Someone lend me a pair of binoculars and a flashlight?


Your race has nothing to do with learning a language! I come across that type of ignorance everyday! It's the type of teacher you have, your native language as compared to the one you're learning, and how much time and effort you put into your studies. I should have no barriers in learning Korean next, since it's similar to Japanese grammar, and they only have 24 characters. Chinese is actually easier for me to listen to than Japanese.

I also had a wonderful teacher that never went into teaching my class romaji. We went straight to hiragana first then katakana. She also worked on pronunciation with us.

As for your English, how about asking where the person's tongue is instead of trying to find it? I tell my students where their tongue should be and then pronounce the word for them. It's up to them to listen to me, and practice.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~acadtech/phonetics/# a good website if you need to get into someone's mouth and see where their tongue is.

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Postby Theodore » June 19th, 2009 7:56 am

Woah, easy unt. I'm afraid that I gave you the wrong idea. I was saying that since my mother tongue is Vietnamese, which is an Asian language and I grew up in a rather conservative community. It just gives me the advantage of speaking a language closer to Japanese than languages in the West, regarding pronunciation and culture. I never had that so-called Asian Pride. So take it easy.

From my perspective, where you come from greatly determines how strong your accent is and what kinds of mistakes you're more likely to make, and what sounds you have trouble pronouncing the most. For example, students from China and Japan can't pronounce L easily; or Vietnamese students usually drop the last consonants. At my school in the US, International students from Asia are also likely have strong accents. Students from Europe, on the other hand, pick up the intonation and pitch much easier.

And I was trying to be funny with the binoculars and the flashlight. Sorry that I lost you. I also had some wonderful English teachers who really focused on pronunciation. Yet, I find it much more difficult to speak fluently in Eng than Jap. About the tongue thing, I've been watching some pop and ballad video music from the '90 to learn English. They have a lot of close-up face shots with proper speeches. Oh and I really appreciate the link. Will check it later. Thank you.

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Jessi
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Postby Jessi » June 19th, 2009 9:23 am

Theodore wrote:_ Japanese don't use the tongue to pronounce as often as most of us do (explains why you don't see a lot of tongues in Anime eh?). Just my discovery, could be wrong.

Regarding the matter, I find English speakers use their tongues much more extensively than their lips, which is opposite to Japanese. This could be the cause for Japanese to learn English and vice versa. Anyway, I can't learn to speak English by watching people's tongues because I can't get close enough and it's rather dark in their. Will Someone lend me a pair of binoculars and a flashlight?


Really? I find just the opposite to be true, actually! I think you use your tongue a lot more when speaking in Japanese compared to English. Think of sounds like the "r" sound - English has what I call a "lazy r" compared to the "r" in languages like Japanese, Spanish, Italian, etc where you flick it aginst the top of your mouth (called a flap). I think when speaking English you also move your lips around a lot more. For example, think of the "o" vowel sound in both languages. In English you round your lips and make an "oh" sound, but in Japanese you don't round your lips nearly as much. I remember one friend asked me to speak Japanese so she could see what it sounded like (she doesn't know any Japanese), and her observation was that my mouth hardly moved when I spoke.

Just my observations :)
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QuackingShoe
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Postby QuackingShoe » June 19th, 2009 9:30 am

As far as I'm aware, Jessi's rather accurate. English (or American English) is supposed to be very focused on the front of your mouth, and the lips. And one of the major things people tell you to do when improving your Japanese pronunciation is "stop moving your lips."

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Postby Theodore » June 19th, 2009 10:50 am

Jessi wrote:Really? I find just the opposite to be true, actually! I think you use your tongue a lot more when speaking in Japanese compared to English. Think of sounds like the "r" sound - English has what I call a "lazy r" compared to the "r" in languages like Japanese, Spanish, Italian, etc where you flick it aginst the top of your mouth (called a flap). I think when speaking English you also move your lips around a lot more. For example, think of the "o" vowel sound in both languages. In English you round your lips and make an "oh" sound, but in Japanese you don't round your lips nearly as much. I remember one friend asked me to speak Japanese so she could see what it sounded like (she doesn't know any Japanese), and her observation was that my mouth hardly moved when I spoke.

Just my observations :)


We do have different opinions, don't we . Well whatever works. However, we all agree on one thing: Observation and Analysis are keys! :wink:

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Postby untmdsprt » June 19th, 2009 2:59 pm

Theodore wrote:And I was trying to be funny with the binoculars and the flashlight. Sorry that I lost you.


Being funny on a forum such as this is difficult since we can't see your face or body language.

untmdsprt
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Postby untmdsprt » June 19th, 2009 3:04 pm

Jessi wrote:Really? I find just the opposite to be true, actually! I think you use your tongue a lot more when speaking in Japanese compared to English. Think of sounds like the "r" sound - English has what I call a "lazy r" compared to the "r" in languages like Japanese, Spanish, Italian, etc where you flick it aginst the top of your mouth (called a flap). I think when speaking English you also move your lips around a lot more. For example, think of the "o" vowel sound in both languages. In English you round your lips and make an "oh" sound, but in Japanese you don't round your lips nearly as much. I remember one friend asked me to speak Japanese so she could see what it sounded like (she doesn't know any Japanese), and her observation was that my mouth hardly moved when I spoke.

Just my observations :)


Yes you're right! I've never noticed that until you said something about it. My tongue certainly has gotten a workout from such words as りょうり。 :D


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