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mutley wrote:The 只nly way you could really reproduce that 類ort 之f environment is to be constantly surrounded by Japanese 民eople who are willing to 正orrect you.
Yolan wrote:mutley wrote:The 只nly way you could really reproduce that 類ort 之f environment is to be constantly surrounded by Japanese 民eople who are willing to 正orrect you.
I think correction is important, but it's the mass exposure to the natural, living language that is key. For this you need to listen to actual Japanese. A _lot_. That means, radio, TV, etc. etc. Sure, maybe some people are doing this, but I doubt many are.
It's exactly this demand for structure that is mistaken I think. When I was on exchange in Japan five years ago I gave away my TV so I could focus on studying grammar. I still can't speak like a native, and I don't believe its because I'm 'too old' or some such. Rather, its because I haven't had the bulk exposure people must have in order to reach a native speaker level. You can want every higher 'levels' of structured lessons, but insofar as they are structured, and they are lessons, they are not the real thing.
I am pretty much putting forward a bit of the position outlaid by Katsumoto in the above blog I have posted the link to. Rather than debate with me if you disagree, I suggest you first try reading his much more detailed and excellent explanation of what with wrong with the standard textbook/classroom/grammar approach to language learning.
Javizy wrote:By the way, I don't know how Peter learned Japanese, so I don't know why you mention him as the anti-AJATT archetype. Seems a little disrespectful, even if you find his language skills unimpressive.
Javizy wrote:I have heard a lot of accounts from AJATTers though. Many of whom have very advanced recognition skills (newspapers and such), but struggle terribly with conversation. From some of the discussions I've read, I got the impression that production isn't promoted at all as part of AJATT, even if you make use of it yourself. There are, at least, a lot of people who believe they will become fluent speakers just by reading and listening after reading his blogs.