Do you have any plans to start Advanced lessons?

[Yolan]

Yolan, I apologize for taking the post so far. Now that I think of it it was a pretty ass hole thing to and I wasn't trying to be personal. I am sure if this was a conversation face to face things wouldn't have come this far. As I am pretty much always happy to run into others who enjoy studying Japanese as I do. I don't know why it comes out differently on a message board.

cheers

PS the language schools were pretty much an excruciating experience. I hated pretty much every minute of it. The university I quit because I didn't understand enough of the classes although I was still able to get good enough grades. At that point I made a do or die decision to get a job where I would be exposed to more real life Japanese on an everyday basis. The best days of learning that I ever had were spending the day with my friends family and listening to them talk with each other and interacting with each other.

That's OK, I was coming across pretty heavy handed too. It's easy to get carried away on the net when there is so much left out in the way of tone, etc.

I just do get passionate about this, because I worked at Japanese so hard for seven years and got so little out of it. While by comparison the last few months have been great. While I was on exchange five years ago I remember giving away the TV I had in my room so that I could focus on studying grammar... ;-(

[Yolan]

If you have an immediate need for certain language, relying on exposure can be like expecting the needle to appear in the haystack, and taking shortcuts with textbooks, workbooks, or even classes can be quite productive.

I guess it depends on your goal. My goal is total ownership of the language. I intend to be pretty much as good at Japanese than a Japanese person. I'm kind of arguing that you need to eat the haystack. The whole thing. Of course, not every crazy specialist piece of vocabulary. But certainly an adult would/should know + specialist areas that interest me. I just don't think there are any short cuts with language mastery. There certainly are quick ways of learning targeted stuff. If I was going to Japan for a business trip and wanted to know how to ask where the toilet is, I wouldn't start watching Japanese TV in the hopes that it would turn up. ;-0 But I am talking here about exposure to the tune of thousands of hours over the course of a year, for foundational, natural comprehension.

As for classes, I don't think it's so easy to generalise. I have differing opinions on them, and personally I don't think I have any use for the ones available to me at least. If they are all complete trash, though, then try telling that to all the Germans and Swedes that are better at English than we'll likely ever be at Japanese...

Are Swedes and Germans good at English because they take lessons? I remember visiting Holland, where people have great English, and watching TV. A lot of American/English stuff on. Then there is the music...

I recommend this article.

http://l2mastery.com/featured-articles/ ... ou-to-know

And when did failure in Japanese become so acceptable?

I just spent four hours having dinner with some new Japanese friends, chatting away, and it was just so easy and natural. The conversation spanned politics, society, education, philosophy, food, travel, etc. I couldn't have done that five months ago (even after seven years of Japanese). Give me another year and my Japanese will kick the pants out of the English speaking Germans and Swedes. I'm not saying this to brag. I don't think my Japanese is very good compared to my goal of total mastery. But I can now see that such a goal is not unrealistic if you are prepared to pay the piper and go full immersion.

By the way, the drama thing was just a joke because they tend to suck badly.

OK, but I just can't agree that Japanese drama's are comparatively worse than the dramas of another country. If I had my TV hooked up to local broadcast instead of my computer, and tried to watch a random show, chances are high that I would hate it. Same with Japanese I suggest.

Here's just one recommendation. Watch Nodame Candabille if you haven't already. Just try telling me you don't want to squirrel Ueno Juri away and marry her?

http://www.fujitv.co.jp/nodame/index.html

[Javizy]

I guess it depends on your goal. My goal is total ownership of the language. I intend to be pretty much as good at Japanese than a Japanese person. I'm kind of arguing that you need to eat the haystack. The whole thing. Of course, not every crazy specialist piece of vocabulary. But certainly an adult would/should know + specialist areas that interest me. I just don't think there are any short cuts with language mastery. There certainly are quick ways of learning targeted stuff. If I was going to Japan for a business trip and wanted to know how to ask where the toilet is, I wouldn't start watching Japanese TV in the hopes that it would turn up. ;-0 But I am talking here about exposure to the tune of thousands of hours over the course of a year, for foundational, natural comprehension.

Indeed. I was thinking more like an accountant moving to Japan, or somebody looking to chat up girls clubs. Sometimes it's necessary to take a bit of initiative with your learning.

Are Swedes and Germans good at English because they take lessons? I remember visiting Holland, where people have great English, and watching TV. A lot of American/English stuff on. Then there is the music...

There's just so many factors involved that I'd rather not make a definite comment. My personal approach, though, is to quantify and familiarise myself with the bales of hay before trying to ingest them. It's possible to over-generalise rules even if you learn them formally, and trying to infer them yourself doesn't guarantee you've got them right at all. I like the structure and security you get from a grammar book, and how it can open windows you didn't even know were there. Nothing but exposure can help you master language, but there are ways of giving yourself an initial boost and avoiding common mistakes. Keep in mind that natives themselves make plenty of mistakes, and nobody has had more exposure than them. I've probably used some questionable English in this post...

OK, but I just can't agree that Japanese drama's are comparatively worse than the dramas of another country. If I had my TV hooked up to local broadcast instead of my computer, and tried to watch a random show, chances are high that I would hate it. Same with Japanese I suggest.

Generally I don't like dramas from any country, to be honest, but in the US and Britain at least, there seems to be a certain standard of acting, production, scripting, etc. If you watch the likes of 銭ゲバ, アンフェア, 魔王, and the like, it's like going back to US TV in the 1970s (typical Japanese sexism and xenophobia only add to this feeling). There are some good ones (I managed to get through 流星の絆 without gouging my eyes), but I do think the general standard is lower. Just my opinion of course.