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31 grammar points in 31 days

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mmmason8967
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby mmmason8967 » December 18th, 2013 8:18 pm

andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:"Soto ni tenki wa samui de aru. Uwagi o kite!"
The weather outside is cold. Wear a coat!

The first sentence is not quite right, and the second one looks completely wrong. I think it should be more like:-

Soto ni tenki wa monosugoi de aru. Demo robata wa yorokobashii de aru.
The weather outside is frightful, but the fireside is delightful.

:D

マイケル

community.japanese
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby community.japanese » December 19th, 2013 7:15 am

Andy-san, くろくまsan, charliegchen8215-san, トラsan, マイケルsan,

charliegchen8215 wrote:The thing I don't get is why when it comes to math is that the Japanese grammar goes out the door.
1足す1掛ける2は4になります。
The word order is similar to English but which what is modifying what? Seems to be special rules when it come to numbers.

Very good point :D
This is something similar to "why this sentence is any way wrong although it's working grammatically correct" kind
of issues. The language rules and other theories must work together to make sense.
1足す1掛ける2は4です。
What decides "how grammar works" or "what modifies what" here is not grammar, but it's math theory.
We all learn that in calculations, we have to work on devisions and/ multiplications and then additions and/or
abstructions. This is universal truth and any universal truths and facts come first.
If someone says, 氷はあたたかいです。 (The ice is warm.),
this is "grammatically correct because it takes "A wa B desu" using the correct conjugation of i-adjective.
However, ice is a cold object.

トラsan, thank you for the better explanation about past tense describing the current/present conditions :oiwai:
I'm not too sure how to describe in Japanese what you mentioned about touching math question with
barge pole...I'd say 数学の問題には触れないことにします。OR横やりを入れないことにします。 :mrgreen:
Anyway, to answer to charliegchen8215-san's request...
> Again, doesn't this have more to do with 助動詞の「け」? 助動詞の「け」がなかった場合はどうでしょうね。
ちなみに、「住んでいるんでした」という文はPDFに本当に書いてありましたかね。これは関連付けの「のだ」という連語ですね。私の知る限り、関連付けの「のだ」は過去形が存在しません。

Good questions! 助動詞の「け」は、「不確かさ」を表現していますね。この部分は「かな」にすることもできます。
「冷蔵庫にマヨネーズがある」という状態が、過去から続いているという前提で、過去のある時点を想像して「あった」という
表現を使います。そして、それが「不確か」なので「け」や「かな」をつけます。
The difference between 「あるっけ」 and 「あったっけ」 are rather point of view and whether or not
you have "condition in past" in your mind (or "in the picture"). And also, again, if you're really not sure
and doubtful, you'd use the past one あったっけ
In order for you to understand a little bit easier "why past tense for more doubtful",
I think I could say the idea behind is "if you wonder or doubt that there could have not been mayonnaise in the past,
why can it be there now?". (And of course, if you bought one later and remember that for sure, you don't wonder now.)
As to 住んでいるんでした, it has ~んです which is conjugated to the past tense.

Quick corrections to some other sentences from Andy-san:
(charliegchen8215-san and マイケルsan, thank you for the helps! :kokoro: )
Watashi ga te o furi-hajimetara, hashitte kudasai! OR Watashi ga te o futtara hashiri-hajimete kudasai.

Hayaku aruite! (OR Hayaku!) Densha ga itte shimau (OR ugoite shimau)! (Walk quickly! The train is leaving!)
=> Please pay attention to this sentence. We need to add some connotations in this kind of sentences
and literal translation might not sound very natural. So I changed the expressions.

Soto wa monosugoku samui desu. Uwagi o kite!
(The weather outside is cold. Wear a coat.)
=> Again, please pay attention here. The expression "de aru" is super formal and rather written language,
so it doesn't go well with colloquial or casual spoken language.
Also, The word "tenki" would often require describtions like "good", "bad" or specific weather like "rainy".
One example with "de aru" would be:
Soto wa totemo samuku, kurai no de aru.

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

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andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » December 19th, 2013 8:48 pm

Thanks, Natsuko-sensei.

Day 27 - LIS5L20 - tame ni, you ni

"Onna ga suki ni naru you ni hana o agemashita."
I gave flowers to a girl so she'd like me.

"Hon o yomu tame ni toshokan ni itta."
I went to the library to read a book.

andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » December 20th, 2013 4:57 pm

Day 28 - LIS6L22 - De aru

"Usagi wa niku o tabenai doubutsu de aru."
Rabbits are animals which do not eat meat.

I know "de aru" is supposed to be formal written language so I'm imagining this sentence being written in an encyclopedia. If that's not good enough, it's a failure of imagination to come up with a better sentence, not a lack of understanding of the grammar point.

community.japanese
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby community.japanese » December 21st, 2013 1:25 pm

Andy-san,
"Hon o yomu tame ni toshokan ni itta." (I went to the library to read a book.)

perfect! :oiwai:

"Onna ga suki ni naru you ni hana o agemashita." (I gave flowers to a girl so she'd like me.)

The usage of "you ni" is very correct, but please be carefule with the word "on'na".
It seems like you're talking about someone in novel, not in the real world. Maybe "kanojo ga watashi o"
would be more ...natural. :wink:

"Usagi wa niku o tabenai doubutsu de aru." (Rabbits are animals which do not eat meat.)

This is also very correct and it is the right usage, I suppose :wink:

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » December 21st, 2013 5:41 pm

Very helpful. :)

Day 29 - LIS5L19 - Tame

"Sakana no tame ni esa o kau"
[I] buy food for the fish.

"Kodomotachi no tame no gifuto"
A gift for the children.

thegooseking
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby thegooseking » December 22nd, 2013 3:29 pm

That seems right to me. Tame on its own is a noun meaning 'good' or 'benefit', e.g. anata no tame da - "It's for your own good" or "It's in your best interests".

So to turn it into an adjective you add 'no' and to turn it into an adverb you add 'ni', as you've done.

I think "sakana no tame no esa wo kau" would also work for the first sentence, since "food for the fish" is what you're buying, whereas you're saying "I'm buying food and I'm doing it for the fish". But I don't think what you've got is actually wrong.

andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » December 22nd, 2013 5:55 pm

Day 30 - LIS5L18 - Transitive and intransitive verbs

"Saru wa banana o mitsukemashita."
The monkey found the banana.

"Banana ga mitsukatta."
The banana was found.

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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » December 23rd, 2013 8:10 pm

Day 31 - LIS5L17 - Naru/suru

"Sabaku mo yoru ni samuku naru."
Even the desert gets cold at night.

"Aatisuto ni naru no tame ni mainichi kaku you ni suru."
[I] try to draw every day so I can become an artist.

The end!

Thanks to everybody who helped.

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Re: 31 grammar points in 31 days

Postby community.japanese » December 27th, 2013 1:14 pm

Andy-san, 子狼san,
very well done, a pair of you :oiwai:

andycarmenjapanese8100 wrote:"Aatisuto ni naru no tame ni mainichi kaku you ni suru."
try to draw every day so I can become an artist.

Only this one had a little extra word: "no" before "tame".
=> Aatisuto ni naru tame ni mainichi (e o) kaku you ni suru.
I'd probably add [i]what
you "kaku" (i.e. "e") because the verb "kaku" has both meanings
of "writing/composing" and "drawing/painting", and the noun "aatisuto" (artist) covers any kinds
including musicians, painters and performers. :wink:

Congratulations on the great completetion! :oiwai:
And, thank you very much everyone for the helps and productive discussions! :D :kokoro:

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

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