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•BL 103• "reibun wo onegai shimasu"

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Belton
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Joined: June 16th, 2006 11:39 am

•BL 103• "reibun wo onegai shimasu"

Postby Belton » August 1st, 2006 12:45 pm

Keeping to the topic, vocab list, and/or grammar points,
Each student can leave some example sentences here.
    If you use kanji please give furigana. 漢字[かんじ]
    If you only use hiragana use word breaks.
    Romaji is very welcome too.
    Try to not use a dictionary too much but use words you already know.
    If you include an interesting new word, give an English definition.
    It's more important to try than to be right

Mistakes will be made, and are a good way to learn.
Hopefully amongst ourselves we can correct them.
Ideally an advanced learner or a native speaker might drop by and help out on this.

_________________________________________

this thread: Beginner Lesson 103 -- The Perfect gift
topic: birthday, management structure, giving
vocab: see pdf (or listen carefully to the podcast!)
grammar points: あげる、past progressive

Peter
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Joined: April 29th, 2006 8:35 am

Postby Peter » August 1st, 2006 1:07 pm

奥「おく」さんが怒「おこ」っていましたから、ダイヤをあげました。すると、奥さんはすぐに機嫌「きげん」がよくなりました。

My wife was angry, so I bought her a diamond. With that, my wife soon felt better. :wink:
Not based on a true story.
Peter
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saketini99
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Postby saketini99 » August 2nd, 2006 3:53 am

友達の誕生日はすかり忘れていた。大事なプレセントをあげるでしょう。

ともだち の たんじょうび は すかり わすれていた。だいじな プレセント あげる でしょう。

(I) completely forgot (my) friend's birthday. (I) should probably buy (them) a good/precious gift.

Actually, I'm not sure if this is "should"...?
If I used "agenakucha naranai deshou" instead, would that be more correct?

Thanks

Belton
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Joined: June 16th, 2006 11:39 am

Postby Belton » August 2nd, 2006 1:10 pm

You might need input from someone who knows more than me, but...

でしょう doesn't convey necessity to me. I'd translate it as just probably give. (Vdic + だろう construction) . It's something you might well do but there's no obligation involved.
Vneg + nakereba naranai is must / should do something.
I think the Vneg + nakucha construction (colloquial speech) doesn't have naranai in it.

But can you put the two ideas together? I don't know. I'd approach it as
多分、高いプレセントをあげなくちゃ。
たぶん、たかい プレセント を あげなくちゃ。
Maybe, I have to give (her) an expensive present.

or

多分、高いプルセントをあげたほうがいいです。
たぶん、たかい プレセント を あげた ほう が いい です。
Maybe it's best (for me) to give (her) an expensive present.

I think maybe the desu here could become desyou. I'm hesitant because it's English logic not Japanese logic working and it might destroy the meaning of the phrase.

At the level I'm at (and I think the podcasts are at) the skill in speaking is getting a core idea across clearly rather than a very specific nuanced idea across. (IMHO)
For my money if the above constructions are grammatically correct (and hopefully are also how that idea can be naturally expressed) there seems to me little difference between them.

---
edit for typo's
Last edited by Belton on August 4th, 2006 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Belton
Expert on Something
Posts: 752
Joined: June 16th, 2006 11:39 am

Postby Belton » August 2nd, 2006 1:23 pm

My turn

先生にお中元を差し上げました。
せんせい に おちゅうげん を さしあげました。
Sensei ni ochugen wo sashiagemashita.
I gave my teacher a chugen (mid-year) gift.

弟に漫画をやった。
おとうと に まんが を やった。
otouto ni manga wo yatta.
I gave my kid brother a comic.
(younger siblings fall into the same catagory as plants when giving :lol: ageru would be kinder. )

jkid
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Postby jkid » August 29th, 2006 8:29 am

I'm not sure if i cant ask questions here but Beltonさん why do you have さし tagged on to あげました.?

Belton
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Joined: June 16th, 2006 11:39 am

Postby Belton » August 29th, 2006 8:46 am

You can ask questions anywhere!! :D

さしあげる is a humble form of あげる
You use it when talking about giving to someone higher in status than you are. Typically teachers, bosses, etc. ( sense of "I humbly give this to you" )

あげる is used for equals or lower status.
やる can be used for lower status but it is probably better to be careful how you use it.

jkid
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Joined: July 27th, 2006 12:52 pm

Postby jkid » August 29th, 2006 9:33 am

Thanks for clearing that up. :)

I will be sure to use it in the future.

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