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Difference - Morau vs Kureru

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akira17
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Difference - Morau vs Kureru

Postby akira17 » August 15th, 2006 4:34 pm

Are Morau and Kureru interchangable?

For example

友達にお土産を買ってもらいました
友達にお土産を買ってくれました


Any ideas? :?:

JockZon
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Postby JockZon » August 15th, 2006 5:35 pm

友達にお土産を買ってもらいました
My friend got/received a souvenir (from me)

友達にお土産を買ってくれました
(I) gave my friend a souvenir

I don't really understand what you mean with interchangable.

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Brody
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Postby Brody » August 15th, 2006 6:28 pm

The verbs themselves are rather interchangable (not literally, but they are very close). That is, if you just have a verb plus くれる or もらう, it would be kind of the same thing (ie you or someone in your in group getting a the favor of the verb). Also, check out my post asking about saying thank you using these verbs; you'll see how interchangeable they are.

The place where you need to be careful is with the other parts of the sentence. Objects and subjects take different particles, according to whether くれる or 
もらう is attached.

I'm sure you listened to last week's podcasts; they talked all about this.
AKA パンク野郎

Belton
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Postby Belton » August 15th, 2006 7:05 pm

友達にお土産を買ってくれました
(I) gave my friend a souvenir


I gave a souvenir to my friend
would be
私は友達にお土産を上げました。

My friend gave a souvenir to me
友達は(わたしに)お土産をくれました。

I received a souvenir from my friend
私は友達にお土産をもらいました。


It's all in the particles.
(akira-san's second example should be
友達 お土産を買ってくれました。
My friend gave me the buying of a souvenir.
My friend bought a souvenir for me. )

ageru to give to equal or lower status.
morau to recieve from equal or lower status
kureru to give (to me) from equals or lower.  
I can never kureru. Others kureru to me.

は marks the agent doing the action
に marks the recepient of the action
を marks the object

In a practical sense they are the same. I end up with a present.

But the agent is different in each case. And who takes which particle is different. And the focus is different.
If it's all about me, morau would be the choice.
If it's all about my friend, kureru would be the choice.

----
edit
if I'm repeating Brody-san it's because he posted while I was composing!
----

Belton
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Postby Belton » August 15th, 2006 9:22 pm

I was thinking a little more about this on the way home...

I should have said
に marks the indirect object.
The recipient in ageru and kureru,
but the the "person from" in morau.

The example
友達 に お土産を買ってくれました。
might work, but would mean
someone( un-named here and not part of my group) bought a souvenir for my friend (who is part of my group).
The un-named someone would have to be specified in a longer piece of writing or conversation.
だれが友達にお土産を上げましたか。
----edit----
I don't know if this would be a natural construction for a Japanese speaker however.
-------------


The other example ~te morau construction is interesting.
It means
I got my friend to buy me a souvenir.

which is distinct from
My friend bought a souvenir for me
友達 は お土産を買ってくれました。


I mentioned this book before elsewhere but
Making Sense of Japanese by Jay Rubin also has some interesting essays about giving and receiving.

Brody
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Postby Brody » August 16th, 2006 3:05 am

edit
if I'm repeating Brody-san it's because he posted while I was composing!


Haha! Sneak attack! 8)
AKA パンク野郎

akira17
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Well explained

Postby akira17 » September 9th, 2006 3:00 am

:D
I think I get the idea now. To keep it simple,

Morau is about me receiving something from someone emphasizing more on me.
Kureru means someone giving something to me emphasizing more on the the person giving.

:?:

Arigatou gozaimasu.

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