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Some questions.

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Jason
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Postby Jason » August 23rd, 2006 6:30 am

BrodyMcK wrote:You could also add something like だろう to get the sense of "would."...

I'm not sure where you're planning on sticking だろう here. But in any case, it doesn't really work. なりたいと思う could work, though. It would give it a certain level of uncertainty. なろうと思う could also work, but you'd lose some of the sense of "I want to."

BrodyMcK wrote:Also, I don't know if you would refer to yourself as 先生. That's kind of a term of respect, so when referring to yourself, you should use a humble, neutral term. Maybe 教師 would be better?

I thought about that, too. But I think 先生 would be ok under normal circumstances.

BrodyMcK wrote:And I think it has to be になりたい not がなりたい, being as 先生/教師 is a noun.

はい?それはそうだけど、どこで「がなりたい」を見たの?
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Postby Brody » August 23rd, 2006 8:25 pm

BrodyMcK wrote:
You could also add something like だろう to get the sense of "would."...

I'm not sure where you're planning on sticking だろう here. But in any case, it doesn't really work. なりたいと思う could work, though. It would give it a certain level of uncertainty. なろうと思う could also work, but you'd lose some of the sense of "I want to."


I was going to stick it on the end; I was trying to capture the essence of "would," in that I felt "would" contains a lot of uncertainty. "If I am perhaps able to speak Japanese one day, I will maybe become a Japanese teacher." But like I said, I don't quite have this point down yet, so it was kind of an educated guess.


BrodyMcK wrote:
And I think it has to be になりたい not がなりたい, being as 先生/教師 is a noun.

はい?それはそうだけど、どこで「がなりたい」を見たの?


ごめん、てんせいさんは二つの別の例を書きました。
Off the top of my head, Im thinking 私は日本語を話せば日本語の先生になりたい

これでいい? Normally I wouldnt question such a basic, beginner sentence, but the thing is "日本語の先生がなりたい” doesnt really mean "I would like to become a Japanese teacher." It just means "I want to become a Japanese teacher." meaning a literal translation would be "If I could speak Japanese I want to become a Japanese teacher." and that doesnt make sense.

ぼくは第二番目の文しか気が付かなかったのです。多分、てんせいさんがその文をタイプミスしたかも知れません。 ごめん、ぼくの発言を無視してください。
AKA パンク野郎

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Jason
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Postby Jason » August 23rd, 2006 8:35 pm

いや、謝ることはないよ。私はその部分を見逃した。
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Postby Tensei » August 24th, 2006 2:04 am

*blink*

I didnt notice that I did that either.

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Postby Tensei » September 6th, 2006 1:29 am

Whats the difference between subete and zenbu?

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Postby Bueller_007 » September 6th, 2006 9:31 am

Tensei wrote:Whats the difference between subete and zenbu?

From dictionary.goo.ne.jp:

--

ぜんぶ 1 【全部】

(1)ある物事のすべて。皆。全体。
⇔一部
「会員—の意見」「—使ってしまう」
(2)一そろいになっている書物の各冊のすべて


すべて 1 【▽凡て/▽総て/▽全て】

(名)
全部。みんな。
「関係者—が賛成した」「事件の—を詳しく報道する」
(副)
(1)ことごとく。一つも残さず。全部
「問題は—解決された」
(2)一般的にいって。大体。総じて。
「—これはもろもろにまさりていみじう時めき給へば/栄花(花山)」
(3)(下に打ち消しの語を伴って)全然。まったく。一向に。
「山にこもり水に入りて—人を近づけず候/著聞 12」

--

So since they define themselves with each other, the major difference appears to be that "subete" can be used as both a noun (meaning "all") and an adverb (meaning "completely"). But it can also mean "generally" or "not at all". "Zenbu" is a noun/adverb (meaning "all"/"completely"), which, apparently, can also mean "a complete set of books". It doesn't appear to have the meanings of "generally" or "not at all" that "subete" has. At first, I thought "zenbu" was only a noun, but Sanseido says otherwise.

http://www.sanseido.net/

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Postby Tensei » September 12th, 2006 1:33 am

Which of these is correct: 英語がはなせます or 英語をはなせます?

Also I heard that te form + hoshii cant be used on yourself. Then what would 私は食べてほしいです mean?

I know youre supposed to say 私は食べたい just in case anyone feels like pointing that out, but still.

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Postby Jason » September 12th, 2006 2:02 am

Tensei wrote:Which of these is correct: 英語がはなせます or 英語をはなせます?

I was taught that が is correct. But I've heard that を is acceptable in some cases. I just can't remember what those cases are.

Tensei wrote:Also I heard that te form + hoshii cant be used on yourself. Then what would 私は食べてほしいです mean?

"I want [you] to eat [whatever]." てほしい is used to express that you want someone else to do something for you.
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Postby Tensei » September 12th, 2006 8:03 pm

ありがとうございます。

Now, if you want to say something like "I went to a movie and it wasn't good at all." as one sentence you have to use and (そして), right? You cant say "私は映画に行ってぜんぜんよくなかったです。” right?

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Postby Jason » September 13th, 2006 12:04 am

Tensei wrote:Now, if you want to say something like "I went to a movie and it wasn't good at all." as one sentence you have to use and (そして), right? You cant say "私は映画に行ってぜんぜんよくなかったです。” right?

You're right. You can't say that. But そして doesn't really work either. What you can say is:

私は映画に行ったが、全然よくなかったです。

[edit] The issue with the て-form and そして is that you can't use them to make contrasting statements. Even though your sentence says "...movie and it wasn't any good", what's really implied it "...move but it wasn't any good." (most people don't go to a movie and pay good money for a show they hope or expect to suck) For contrastive sentences you use が/けど.

Also, just a very minor thing. While よくない does work here, you might also consider 面白くない.
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Postby Tensei » October 3rd, 2006 12:50 am

I heard that when you use ほしい after the te form of a verb, you cant apply to things you want to do. Now if you say something like ボブは私に食べてほしいです。 and that would mean "Bobs wants me to eat."'

But what if you said 私はボブに食べてほしいです? That would be I want Bob to eat, right? That doesnt count towards your own wants, ne?

And what if you change Bob and say 私は私に食べてほしいです。 Is that just something you cant say? Or would it mean something like "I want you to want me to eat" or something?

Oh, and I dont fully understand the te form and contrasting sentences thing...so you cant say "I saw a movie and it wasnt interesting" with the te form, but can you say "I saw a movie and it was interesting?" with the te form since theyre both positive statements? I think I heard somewhere that something like that would mean actually mean "It was interesting that we saw a movie." but I dont know any rules about when this would apply and when it wouldnt.

ありがとうございます。

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Postby Bueller_007 » October 3rd, 2006 5:33 am

Tensei wrote:I heard that when you use ほしい after the te form of a verb, you cant apply to things you want to do. Now if you say something like ボブは私に食べてほしいです。 and that would mean "Bobs wants me to eat."'

But what if you said 私はボブに食べてほしいです? That would be I want Bob to eat, right? That doesnt count towards your own wants, ne?

And what if you change Bob and say 私は私に食べてほしいです。 Is that just something you cant say? Or would it mean something like "I want you to want me to eat" or something?

Oh, and I dont fully understand the te form and contrasting sentences thing...so you cant say "I saw a movie and it wasnt interesting" with the te form, but can you say "I saw a movie and it was interesting?" with the te form since theyre both positive statements? I think I heard somewhere that something like that would mean actually mean "It was interesting that we saw a movie." but I dont know any rules about when this would apply and when it wouldnt.

ありがとうございます。

Instead of the "ni" in all of the above sentences, you should be using "ga".

Also, you can't use "hoshii" for another person's desires, unless you are psychic. You have to use the verb form "hoshigaru", which means "seems to want".

Watashi wa Bob ga tabete hoshii desu.
I want Bob to eat.

Bob wa watashi ga tabete hoshigatte imasu.
Bob seems to want me to eat.

The third sentence is just plain weird.


The rule that you've said above about contrasting sentences is generally true, although I'm sure I could find some exceptions with some more time or thought.

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Postby Tensei » October 3rd, 2006 8:44 pm

Instead of the "ni" in all of the above sentences, you should be using "ga".

Also, you can't use "hoshii" for another person's desires, unless you are psychic. You have to use the verb form "hoshigaru", which means "seems to want".


Uh, what? Not only have I read about my sentences, but Ive HEARD them from fluent Japanse people too.

Its just that the sentences I read about didnt cover a lot of examples. It just said that you use it after the te form of a verb and you dont use it on yourself, and then it gave a few example sentences. Youve probably never heard of this construction because its very plain and familiar. Also it can be seen as childish. So I probably shouldnt even be asking about this in the first place.

Hell, just 20 minutes ago I was watching some anime, which is obviously real Japanese that doesnt cut any corners to make it easy on foreigners, and somebody said "タカトは僕にもっとt強くなってほっしいんだよね。。。” which based on the context would obviously mean "Takato wants me to get stronger, right?"

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Postby Bueller_007 » October 4th, 2006 12:49 am

English kids say stuff like "I went poopy." That isn't correct English, and I wouldn't recommend that non-native speakers copy it.

You shouldn't be using hoshii for third person desires. Don't copy "childish" Japanese.

As for the ni vs. ga thing, you're right. I was typing in a hurry from work, which is why I used romaji instead of kanji. I confused the forms. "ga" is used in combination with "~te hoshii" to indicate a desired state, not the doer of some action.


BTW, if you're gonna ask a question, you probably shouldn't get bitchy if you don't like the answer, yeah?

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Postby Tensei » October 4th, 2006 2:27 am

Sorry if I came off like that. Its just...it seems youve never even heard of te + hoshii and yet you gave a lesson on it anyways...meh, sorry.

And...Im not so sure te + hoshii is really a childs construction...its just that it can come off as childish outside of familiar circles. 風船がほしい isnt a "childs sentence" but it can sound like one depending. Te + hoshii is basically a more familiar and less recommended way of saying te + moraitai. Or when you suspect that someone wants something done.

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