すみません - kanji question

[animate]

I'm attempting to start reading kanji--something I've been putting off since I dont' know when.

I've been using http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ik2r-myr/kanji/kanji1a.htm that site; it seems to be helpful enough.

My questions is whether or not to learn the onyomi or kunyomi reading first. It seems like an awful light to remember doing both at once (or should I try that?) and I'm not sure what to do. Any newb kanji advice would be appreciated.

愛を込めて,
Rob

[Jason]

Actually, I'd suggest learning the meanings first. It's really better to learn readings in the context of words and sentences rather than individual characters. They stick better that way.

[Bucko]

If I was to start over again I would learn the onyomi and one or two of the English meanings at the same time. Onyomi readings are good because there's usually only one pronounciation and there is also (sometimes) a pattern that goes with the pronounciations. For example, 英 and　映 both contain the same element and are both pronounced えい. There are countless other examples of this. So learn the meaning/s in English, learn the onyomi, and learn a few words that use it.

[Bueller_007]

Actually, I'd suggest learning the meanings first. It's really better to learn readings in the context of words and sentences rather than individual characters. They stick better that way.

Agreed.

Learn the meanings first. Take a look at the kun-yomi. If it's not a word you already know, don't worry about it just yet. That'll come with time & exposure.

On-yomi should definitely be learned in context. There are so many for some kanji that it's absolutely futile to try to sit & remember them.

Once you've learned enough kanji (maybe 800 or so), you can streamline the process. Get the book "Kanji In Context" and you'll never look back.

[animate]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Much appreciated.

I've found a highly recommended book--Essential Kanji--that I'm enjoying.

The book "Kanji in Context" seems to be out of print, but the one I have is highly recommended and is helping already.

[Tiduas]

I just want to ask, is it possible so learn just the meanings of the Kanji, and not the readings? I do just use it to play games and such, and i don´t think i need to know on or kun yomi for anything else then saying it loid, or is this true? Please fill me in ^_^

And if i were to study kanji, can i just go for the Kun yomi then? Don´t know how to tackle these biiiiig Kanjis =/

[Bucko]

I just want to ask, is it possible so learn just the meanings of the Kanji, and not the readings? I do just use it to play games and such, and i don´t think i need to know on or kun yomi for anything else then saying it loid, or is this true? Please fill me in ^_^

If you just want to learn the meanings in English I suggest you buy Heisig's 'Remembering the Kanji'.

And if i were to study kanji, can i just go for the Kun yomi then? Don´t know how to tackle these biiiiig Kanjis =/

You can learn the kunyomi but there are a lot more of them and the pronounciations aren't as structured. Some kanji have seven or eight kunyomi pronounciations!

[Jason]

I just want to ask, is it possible so learn just the meanings of the Kanji, and not the readings? I do just use it to play games and such, and i don´t think i need to know on or kun yomi for anything else then saying it loid, or is this true? Please fill me in ^_^

And if i were to study kanji, can i just go for the Kun yomi then? Don´t know how to tackle these biiiiig Kanjis =/

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Knowing the meaning(s) of individual kanji is definitely a must, but it's not really enough by itself, especially when multiple kanji are combined to make a word. Take this for example. 火 means "fire", and 花 means "flower." The word 花火(はなび） means "fireworks." Knowing that definition, I think you can see how they get "fireworks" out of "flower" + "fire", but without knowing that beforehand I don't think you could really arrive at that conclusion just from the individual kanji. There are tons of other words like this. I really think the best way to learn kanji is to learn their meanings and then learn their readings in the context of the words they're used in. I think the readings stick much better like that, and you have to learn the words anyway.

That being said, knowning the meanings of individual kanji can come in handy at guessing at the meanings of words you don't know. It's come in handy for me before.

[Tiduas]

Thanks for the anser, now i know that i must learn me all of the Kanjis.
Do you have any tip for that? Like to learn the 20 first Kanjis meanings, and after that go back and learn the on and yomi on these 20? And after that go forward.

Thanks again for helping me ^_^

[animate]

Yeah, you definitely need to learn all that you can. Kunyomi, onyomi, AND the meanings. That example of "hanabi" (fireworks) is of note.

And, as far as memorization goes, it's really up to you. You need to learn works best for you, and then learn from it. No book you can buy will tell you this info; they're reallly all the same anyways.

I suggest writing the character, and it's meanings, while saying it. Write it ten times if you need to. And then test yourself. I do 8 new kanji a day, but perhaps you could start with just two or three. It's all about what works for you.

[Bueller_007]

I suggest writing the character, and it's meanings, while saying it. Write it ten times if you need to. And then test yourself. I do 8 new kanji a day, but perhaps you could start with just two or three. It's all about what works for you.

Personally, I don't recommend that foreigners learn kanji by writing them.

1. Writing is not very useful for foreigners, and it takes much, much longer to learn to write than it does to read. The payoff is not worth the effort, unless you want to be able to write the word 薔薇 as a parlour trick. Really, if you ever forget how to write a kanji, you can just type it into your cell phone and copy it onto paper.

2. You can write the kanji 10 times, and still not understand it the next time you see it: you focused too much on what your hand was doing and not the meaning/reading of the character.

Some people swear by the Heisig method, and that may work fine for you, but one thing to keep in mind is that if you learn kanji from a book, it is much more difficult for you to remember them in context. The reason is that the sequencing of the characters is always the same, so you remember the kanji based partially on the order that they appeared in the book. It's simple psychology. Also, having to recall a story for every kanji would, I imagine, slow down your reading drastically.

So I highly recommend that you get a set of flash cards. Tuttle makes a good 2-pack set that covers all 1,000 of the kanji that Japanese elementary school students learn.

Make yourself a stack of about 50 cards. Leaf through them, and put each in the "know it" or "don't know it" pile. If you don't know it, take a minute to try to remember the meaning, and the kun-yomi, if the kun-yomi is a word you already know. Repeat, using only the "don't know it" pile, and continue until all of the cards are in the "know it" pile. Do this everyday, using the same stack, until you "know" all of the kanji on the first run of the day. Then, set the stack aside and test yourself on it a week later, and maybe a month later, if you can remember.

Learn your on-yomis just by general exposure to the written language.

For me, that was the easiest way.

[animate]

I don't focus much on writing at all, actually. I write the character once, and only to help me remember it (I'm more of a do-it/visual learner).

I don't really know of the Heisig method, because I don't have that book, but I plan on checking it out. However, I don't plan to rely on one method of learning either; some I learn best buy straight memorization but mostly I learn through context (which is why I'm thinking of buying some manga, after getting several hundred kanji under my belt).

How would flashcards help at all? From what you said, it's not much different than what I'm doing now. The only exception being that I'm using piles for what I do or do not know. I trust my memory pretty well, the only thing that I really don't undersand is when to use what meaning (onyomi or kunyomi). I plan on minoring in japanese starting next year, so this shouldn't be a problem in the future. I see no reason to spend $30 to $50 on flashcards.