Grammar exercise

[doraemon]

Hi there!

Here is a grammar exercise I have been trying to get to grips with. Does anyone have any advice re. how to practise this structure? I am practising for an up-coming exam and unfortunately have to catch up on my own now. (I was on leave due to illness). I hope you don´t mind me posting these questions here. Let me know if this is a bother to anyone.

Here goes then! This is the first question about the hito structure at the end which I don´t get. This is from a translation exercise:
1. biiru de youmeina kuni (beer from a famous country?)
2. sugu ni shirasetakatta nyusu.( I don´t get this construction)

There are dozens of variations of these and I find all the exercises rather confusing.

Or vice versa, this would be the same construction for these, no?

1. someone who checked the problem
2. someone who gets angry quickly
3. How do I combine something? Is this with the T-form? For instance: someone who is sitting and smoking.

4. A song which our guest sang beautifully


Do you know of any sites where I can practice some grammar stuctures such as these?
I subscribed, hoping there would be something in the grammar bank but there is hardly anything there.

Another question ( I hope I am allowed to ask all this in one post!!!):

Are there rules for combining sentences with with particles? I went through all my books but there is info scattered everywhere and no bundled rules. Here is what I mean:

1. If I want to join denwa shimasu/uchi wo demasu with mae ni
2. Or maybe kono isu wa irimasen/sutetekudasai with toki wa

Obviously, I mean other particles, too. ( ato de, toki ni, etc.). I hope you understand my question!!!

I know you are all quite advanced here, so apologies for boring/ bothering you with this stuff but I desperately wantto keep up and catch up all the grammar I missed last term. Not an easy task without any help, but I want to try anyway.

Thank you all.

[Jason]

Here goes then! This is the first question about the hito structure at the end which I don´t get. This is from a translation exercise:
1. biiru de youmeina kuni (beer from a famous country?)
2. sugu ni shirasetakatta nyusu.( I don´t get this construction)

There are dozens of variations of these and I find all the exercises rather confusing.

Or vice versa, this would be the same construction for these, no?

1. someone who checked the problem
2. someone who gets angry quickly

I don't know what you mean by "the hito structure at the end", but what you have here are examples of making relative clauses. In English the forumla goes:

(noun phrase to be modified) + (demonstrative pronoun) + (predicate clause modifying the noun phrase)

So you get stuff like "the car I drove yesterday", "the person who won't be there", "the answer that I didn't know", etc. But in Japanese the predicate clause comes directly before the noun phrase and there's no pronoun:

(predicate clause in plain form) + (noun phrase).

So to use your examples:

-ビールで有めな国 = "country famous for it's beer"
-すぐに知らせたかったニュス = "the news (I) wanted to tell immediately"

One thing to keep in mind with relative clauses is that the particle は gets replaced by が in the relative clause.

3. How do I combine something? Is this with the T-form? For instance: someone who is sitting and smoking.

In this case, you can use the て-form.

座ってタバコを吸っている誰か

4. A song which our guest sang beautifully

私たちの客さんが美しく歌った歌

Note the が here instead of は after 客さん.

I subscribed, hoping there would be something in the grammar bank but there is hardly anything there.

The Grammar Bank is brand new and still under construction. So keep your eye on it.

Are there rules for combining sentences with with particles?
<snip>

I'm not really sure what you're asking here.

[doraemon]

Are you part of the jpod team Jason? Why would you tell me to keep my eyes on the grammar bank? As I said, I subscribed because I need to practise for my exams which will be soon and hoped to get some help now. Why would I want to practise for an event when it´s already over?

Anyhow, I was hoping for a simple explanation and maybe some hint as to where I could find some exercises to practise this. Clearly, this was not the right place for this.

[Jason]

Are you part of the jpod team Jason?

*looks under my username and sees "JapanesePod101.com Team Member"* Yep. I must be.

Why would you tell me to keep my eyes on the grammar bank?

Umm....because the grammar bank is brand new and there isn't much content there but they're working on adding more. I thought it might, oh I don't know, be useful in the future even if it's not right now.

Anyhow, I was hoping for a simple explanation and maybe some hint as to where I could find some exercises to practise this. Clearly, this was not the right place for this.

I hate to break it to you, but that's about a simple of an explanation of relative clauses as you can get. I even translated your examples for you. I'm sorry, but I dont' know of any online excercises or anything where you could practice them. If I did, I would have told you. If you'd like, I could give you some more examples here in Japanese and/or English for you to translate and I'll check them for you.

[usagi]

Doraemon-san,

First of all, hat´s off to you for studying on your own. Hope you are better now.

These sentence constructions are indeed quite confusing. I am not an expert but I will try to help out a bit.Whether it is "hito" or any other noun at the end of the sentence; everything that comes before it describes this last word. In English you would usually put the noun at the front of the sentence; that´s why it´s all the more confusing.

Try translating these:
1. The book that I bought yesterday.
2. The book that my boyfriend gave me.
3. The book that is on the table.
4. The books that you can´t buy in Japan.

The verbs used are in their short forms and yes you can combine them with the T-form.
Try this one:
5. A person who is tall and pretty
6. A person who is tall and has got black hair.

Give them a go and let me know when you´re ready. I´ll send you the answers.

I, too was quite disappointed with the responses/lack of responses when I asked for advise for where to go/ what to buy as supplementary grammar material, so I understand your disappointment.

Keep up the work, good luck and let me know when you´re done and need more.

I´ll get back to you about the particles later. You need to practise those, too You will need those!!!!


Take care and have a lovely weekend

[Bucko]

Alright I'll have a shot at explaining some of it...

Here goes then! This is the first question about the hito structure at the end which I don´t get. This is from a translation exercise:
1. biiru de youmeina kuni (beer from a famous country?)
2. sugu ni shirasetakatta nyusu.( I don´t get this construction)

I don't get what you mean by the 'hito' structure, but I'll explain the first sentence. The key is the 'de' particle which usually means 'by way of'. So you have a 'yuumeina kuni', a 'famous country'. How is it famous? 'by way of beer'. So literally 'a country famous by way of beer', or more natually 'a country famous for beer'.

Or vice versa, this would be the same construction for these, no?

1. someone who checked the problem
2. someone who gets angry quickly
3. How do I combine something? Is this with the T-form? For instance: someone who is sitting and smoking.

4. A song which our guest sang beautifully

These are all relative clauses (including the 'country famous for beer' sentence). Since you have an exam coming up it looks like your teacher has been drilling into you the Japanese relative clause form. First I recommend you research the English grammar version of relative clauses then see how the Japanese version works.

For sentence 3, "someone who is sitting and smoking", you use the 'nagara' form. I believe they discussed it in one of the earlier Intermediate lessons. So you would say something like たばこを吸いながら座っている人 - Someone who is smoking while sitting.

Explanation of relative clauses including English and Japanese here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_clause

[doraemon]

Hi there Bucko,
Good explanation with the - by way of- part. That works really well and also thanks for the advice on nagara. I need to check this though, I have never heard of it.

Hi Usagi,
Hey that was a wicked post! Just amazing. Can I send you the answers to get them checked? And please I need more, can you mail me some?

I am much better now, I am even allowed to take my laptop into chemo with me, so it keeps my mind off stuff. So much to catch up on, though.

Anyways, how about the next question then? How do I join sentences with mae ni or with toki or toki ni? If I took a guess, it would probably be with a short form before the mae or toki. Is that right?

Usagi=rabbit, right? Does that mean you are a girl? Wow, I must be in love then! If it wasn´t for your post, the previous poster was such a downer, you picked my mood up. Cool stuff.

[usagi]

Doraemon-san,

Glad I could help you out! And thanks for the nice compliments

I have just sent you a few more to practise. Maybe you could post your answers here, so others can benefit from this. Obviously, you can just mail me if you prefer not to.


Good luck with all your studies and keep the grammar questions coming.
There are very helpful, kind experts in this forum (unlike me) who will gladly help you out.

Don´t forget many people may not post here, but can learn from just reading these posts.

[Tensei]

Give them a go and let me know when you´re ready. I´ll send you the answers.

...Can you send me the answers too?

And it bugs me that Jason and usagi have conflicting sitting and smoking answers. Im leaning towards usagi because I do know about -nagara, and I do know it means youre doing something while doing something else, but Jason is a team member.

[Jason]

And it bugs me that Jason and usagi have conflicting sitting and smoking answers. Im leaning towards usagi because I do know about -nagara, and I do know it means youre doing something while doing something else, but Jason is a team member.

They're not conflicting. They say pretty much the same thing but the nuance is slightly different. The -nagara version emphasises the fact that the person is smoking while they're sitting. My version is simply "smoking and sitting." They don't necessarily have to be happening at the same time, though they could. The -nagara version is probably preferrable though.

[usagi]

Tensei-san,

Sure! I will just post them here so anyone can refer to them... and obviously so that others can correct them or provide you with alternative suggestions.

1. The book I bought yesterday
kinou katta hon

2. The book that my boyfriend gave me
kare ga kureta hon

3.The book that is on the table
tsukue no ue ni aru hon

4. The books that you cannot buy in Japan
nihon de kaenai hon

Apologies for the romaji; this is not my computer

The point being: everything that qualifies the noun "hon" comes before it to explain what kind of book it is.

Hope that helps and enjoy your studies

Edited: I think I forgot some, gomen, I will post more later

[Jason]

2. The book that my boyfriend gave me
kare ga kureta hon

kare -> kareshi

3.The book that is on the table
tsukue no ue ni aru hon

You could also say, "tsukue no ue no hon", but then it wouldn't be a relative clause anymore. I think this way is more common though.

4. The books that you cannot buy in Japan
nihon de haenai hon

haenai -> kaenai

[usagi]

Doraemon-san,

As I am no longer a subsciber, I would like to say "gambattekudasai" for all your future studies and stay healthy.

You can send me an e-mail should you wish to do so. I will try to help you out as best as I can. And don´t let anyone, Jason-san or anyone else upset you. Keep your chin up and a big smile on your face Getting upset about other peoples rudeness will just harm you in the end.

One last mae ni /toki exercise before I go:

1. I will make a phone call before leaving the house.
2. I need to get money before I go in to eat in that restaurant.
3. I never ate spinach when I was a child
4. If you don´t need this chair, then why don´t you throw it away? (iranai toki ha)


O-Genki-de,

Usagi.

[norgus]

Hello, I don't think I've posted at the forum before, so if not: よろしくね！

If you don't mind, I'm going to try and answer the last excersizes by usagi-san, but I'll try and hide them in case you don't want to know before trying yourself.

(select below to view)
||
1. 家を出かけ前に電話をします
2. 料理屋に行く前にお金が必要です　(I said money is required, as i'm not sure what verb to use to 'get' or 'withdraw' money, anyone?)
3. 子供の時にはぜんぜんほうれん草を食べませんでした
4. 椅子が要らない時には捨てれば良いじゃないですか
though for 4 I'd rather say:
椅子が要らないなら、捨てれば良いじゃないですか
||

Please point out anywhere I've gone wrong.