Translation Thread

[metablue]

Hmm, that sounds a bit condescending. It's not meant to be. It's what I'd do ... I can't think of any other way to get a feel for sentence structure unless you're talking to Japanese people all the time. The language sense you get from reading would have to carry over to speaking. If not, then I'm screwed too.

[Brody]

Yeah, I'm doing that as well. Still, uggh....I know I'm being ridiculous, but why couldn't I have chosen something easy, ping pong perhaps?

[metablue]

I keep thinking how easy languages like French will be after Japanese. The thing that drives me crazy is that so many of the words sound the same.
imasu
arimasu
kimasu
ikimasu
iimasu
And all the ones that start with "shi".
argh!

I try to say "his boots" (kare no buutsu) and instead I say "my boyfriend's thing".
"It's good to go home" (kaeru wa ii da yo) turns into "the frog is good".

[Brody]

Man, do I know what you mean.
Right now I have no opportunity to speak Japanese, so I have to rely on books to get my speaking down.

I'm getting really good at reading Japanese and translating into English.

Still, I've just begun really working on trying to put myself into Japanese (if that makes sense) and...wow. What I attempt to do, and what the translator has done are so different.

[Bueller_007]

Man, do I know what you mean.
Right now I have no opportunity to speak Japanese, so I have to rely on books to get my speaking down.

I'm getting really good at reading Japanese and translating into English.

Still, I've just begun really working on trying to put myself into Japanese (if that makes sense) and...wow. What I attempt to do, and what the translator has done are so different.

Translation is an ART. Really. It's just as difficult, if not moreso, than actually writing the original. When writing the original, you know exactly what you intend to say. When translating, you have to be a mind-reader. And then you have to try to phrase it as eloquently (or ineloquently) as the original. It's extremely difficult.

Especially from a language like Japanese, which has no relation to English. There is not a direct word-to-word or structure-to-structure correspondence between them.

Very few translators can work in both directions. Most specialize only in translating from a foreign language to their own language. So don't worry about it.

[Bueller_007]

I first tried to figure out how to say noun verbing <--found. I checked Jim Breen's website and found tons of example sentences, such as その警官は犯人が逃げるのを見つけた。 教師は生徒が試験でカンニングをしているのを見つけた。 Even when I google のを見つけた I find a good 600,000 hits. Not to discredit you, Jason-san, I just don't understand why I can't use this construction.

It's not necessarily an INCORRECT grammar structure. Grammatically, it is sound. It just doesn't represent what you want to say. One of the example sentences from Google is:
桜が咲いているのを見つけた (I found the blooming of the cherry blossoms.)
Another is:
幼虫が発生しているのを見つけた場合 (In the event that you have discovered an outbreak of larvae...)
In the example sentences that you give above, what was discovered? The CHEATING of the student, and the FLEEING of the suspect.

In the sentence you want to translate into Japanese, do you want to emphasize that the DOG was found or that its DREAMING was found?

[Brody]

Bueller-san, become a teacher! That explanation was beautiful! Yes, what I want to convey is that the dog was found. That is was dreaming is secondary information.
Thus, （彼らは）路肩で夢をみている犬を見つけた。is what I'm looking for, right?

In my example sentences, the focus was on the action, right?

Wow, I feel so much better. Thanks!

Very few translators can work in both directions. Most specialize only in translating from a foreign language to their own language. So don't worry about it.

You can do that? Man, do I feel stupid not knowing that. I figured you had to be able to do both. So, I'm guessing if I wanted to translate back into English, I would just need what? conversational Japanese speaking skills? Because right now I can translate into English pretty well. I know after a few more years of study I will be able to translate back into English very well. I think I'll start another topic actually.

[Bueller_007]

Thus, （彼らは）路肩で夢をみている犬を見つけた。is what I'm looking for, right?

"They found a dog dreaming on the shoulder of the road."

I would translate this as "A dog" not "THE dog". If that's what you want, it's okay. Otherwise, try one of the versions I posted earlier.

Looking at the "professionally translated" version that you posted, I would say that the translator has taken quite a few artistic liberties.

You can do that? Man, do I feel stupid not knowing that. I figured you had to be able to do both. So, I'm guessing if I wanted to translate back into English, I would just need what? conversational Japanese speaking skills? Because right now I can translate into English pretty well. I know after a few more years of study I will be able to translate back into English very well. I think I'll start another topic actually.

As an interpreter, you would probably have to be able to do both. But unless you are EXTREMELY ambitious, you will have to leave this to second-generation Japanese-Americans and people who are half-Japanese.

Most translators specialize in one direction--from another language to their native language. So you'd set up a J->E translation service, someone would email you a Japanese document, you'd change it to English and email it back.

E->J translators are a dime a dozen in Japan. I've heard that pay for E->J translators is relatively low. A lot of J->E translation in Japan is done by non-native speakers, so the translation ends up being awkward. I'm not sure, but I think there is a pretty good market in Japan for native English J->E translators.

Incidentally, I had a job interview to become a J->E translator for Panasonic, but I blew it off because I really wanted to get the hell out of Japan. It would have been translating technical manuals, for washing machines, TVs, etc. In order to get that job, you had to know how to use TRADOS translation memory software (I didn't, but I downloaded a copy and learned a bit).

If you're interested in J->E translation as a living, you might want to learn how to use translation memory software.

[Brody]

Here's a translation I'm having trouble with. I think it might have an idiom in it that I am unfamiliar with.

The context is that a young man is talking with an old man in a park. They are discussing what they will have for dinner. The old man replies he is having fried fish and then says something to the effect of, "The leftovers were half-price, luckily." He then sticks his nose in the bag and sniffs the fish, a smile on his face.

The young man is puzzled. He feels sad as he sees the old man's happiness. He then thinks, "Is the old man happy because he was thrify?" Then comes the trouble sentence:
　　人生の終章を迎えた人の手の中には、もっと多くの果実があってもいいはずなのに。

My first problem is that 果実 means "fruit," and there has been no mention of fruit before, so I'm guessing fruit is sort of being used idiomatically to mean something like "reward."

Also, the combination of てもいい＋はず＋のに　is throwing me off.

Here's my attempt: "Yet those facing the final chapter in their lives should be able to have more fruits/rewards/desserts." I was kind of confused with のに I know it somewhat means, "unfortunately; although." Also, is あってもいい permission? as in "it should be okay for people facing the final chapter of their lives to have more rewards." ?

What do you think? Thanks for any comments.

[Jason]

I think you're on the right track. I'm pretty sure it means something like, "(even though) Someone near the end of their life should have more to show for it..."

〜てもいい is used for permission, but it litterally means "it's ok even if..."

[Brody]

Thanks for the reply, Jason-san.

[Brody]

Wow, here's one that blew my mind.

Context: 週末になると、ぼくらは町はずれの森に行く。コナラやクヌギ、エゴノキの葉が生い茂る緑の揺かごでは、タヌキやイタチ、そしてもっと小さなげっ歯類やさらに小さな昆虫たちが幸福に暮らしている。森を囲むように点在する沼には、タナゴやワタカ、クチボソがいる。
(My translation: On the weekend, we went to a forest on the outskirts of town. Tanuki, weasels, and other smaller rodents, as well as small insects lived happily in the cradle of greenery, overgrown with glandulifera, sawtooth oak, and stornyx leaves. There were bitterlings, minnows, and carp in the small lakes that dotted the edges of the forest.


彼らは自分たちの世界を満足だけに見渡しながら、優雅にヒレなそよがせている。

Here's my attempt: They knew just enough of the world to be content, and stirred about with graceful [moves].

It's hard for me to translate the last sentence because I can't figure out what ヒレな means and also when you take the sentence literally it means, "While they looked over their own world in only satisfaction, they were caused to [hirena] stir elegantly."

I appreciate any help.

[Brody]

Sorry I have another, this one's short:

きまっているじゃない

The context is that this little kid always goes to an old construction site to pick up nuts and bolts. Then he buries them near his house. His dad asks him why he does this. The previous sentence says, "He looked at me as if I was a complete fool." Then comes my question sentence.
Afterwards, is the sentence 「楽しいからだよ」　which I am 99% sure the dad is saying/ asking.

I know きまる means to decide and that じゃない is rhetorical, more like a confirmation or a big exclamation point (hard to explain). So literally, I think it means, "It's been decided!" But this doesn't fit. So I'm guessing this is idiomatic. Maybe something like, "You should know!" or my other guess is that it is something like "It's what I supposed to do." said with conviction. then the dad asks, "because it's fun (right?)"

Still, I'm not sure.

Thanks for any help.

[Bueller_007]

Sorry I have another, this one's short:

きまっているじゃない

The context is that this little kid always goes to an old construction site to pick up nuts and bolts. Then he buries them near his house. His dad asks him why he does this. The previous sentence says, "He looked at me as if I was a complete fool." Then comes my question sentence.
Afterwards, is the sentence 「楽しいからだよ」　which I am 99% sure the dad is saying/ asking.

I know きまる means to decide and that じゃない is rhetorical, more like a confirmation or a big exclamation point (hard to explain). So literally, I think it means, "It's been decided!" But this doesn't fit. So I'm guessing this is idiomatic. Maybe something like, "You should know!" or my other guess is that it is something like "It's what I supposed to do." said with conviction. then the dad asks, "because it's fun (right?)"

Still, I'm not sure.

Thanks for any help.

Hmmm. I'd say it means "Isn't it obvious?"

[Bueller_007]

彼らは自分たちの世界を満足だけに見渡しながら、優雅にヒレなそよがせている。
I appreciate any help.

Really have no good ideas about this one.

Because it's half in katakana and half in hiragana, it looks like a な adjective with base ヒレ. But it can't be, because if the next word is a verb, so if it should be in adverbial に form.

ヒレ means "fin". Are you sure you didn't type it wrong? ヒレがそよがせている could mean something along the lines of "their fins waggle". Remember, the sentence prior to this one is about fish. So I have a feeling that ヒレ means "fin".

Maybe it's a typo, or some weird dialect that replaces "ga" with "na"? I have no clue.