Raising Children Bilingually

[Jessi]

Nice discussion, there are a lot of great ideas here I thought I'd recommend the thread at this forum as well for even more ideas:

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... p?TID=4110

The topic is on raising bilingual children in general (not focusing on just English and Japanese)

[fnaaar]

So that's the huge problem. Somehow convincing a child that Japanese is still worth learning, even though it's incredibly difficult (all languages are), incredibly different from English (making it so you can't bounce them off each other), and the language that's ACTUALLY useful for society and family, English, is one you still, as a 4 year old, barely understand. It's really difficult to counterbalance all those negatives.

Things like what Yamanchu suggest seem like nice moves, both giving them a fun reason to use the language, as well as actual necessity if the family the child holidays with don't speak the other language.

Talking about all of this frankly starts to make it seem rather cruel to the child, doesn't it?

What you're saying does make sense and it's not exactly cruel! Oddly enough, I am bilingual - just not in Japanese and English! When I was 9 my family moved to Germany for a year and we went to a German school. While it's a bit rusty now as I don't use it often, by the end of the year my German was fluent (for a 9/10 year old!) with a Bavarian accent! It was the complete immersion that did it - plus having German friends and watching tv etc etc.

I guess it also comes down to how serious you are about raising bilingual children. It takes a lot of time, effort and possibly money, depending on the facilities you have available to you. If you're in a big multinational city, it may be possible to send them to a Japanese school or get involved with the Japanese community there. If you have the opportunity (although it's not realistic for most people) it's good to move to the country in question for at least a year while the children are still young enough to pick it up (my guess is before the age of 12 at the latest). All the bilingual people I know lived in both of the countries whose languages they speak or spent considerable amounts of time in both - I'm sure there are exceptions of course, but I'm talking from my own experience.

Another thing to take into consideration is the environment your children are growing up in. I spoke to my mother recently about this topic and she said that when I started school teachers and children would often comment on my Japanese accent which she thinks made me more self conscious about speaking Japanese [I couldn't tell the difference between "r" and "l" - ha ha! Now I have a Scottish rolled "r" so you'd never know!]. Of course times are changing, but it's important to make sure your school are aware of it, particularly in rural areas where people aren't necessarily used to foreigners.

[cmwatkins]

I think we're settling on doing our best to find opportunities to use Japanese that appeal enough to our son that he'll want to maintain the language on his own. Books, comics and cartoons, video games as he gets a bit older, more visits to Japan, friends and family with whom he wants to speak. I've definitely seen in real terms many of the points that others have made here: You can't force him to want the language, but you can give him exposure to things that might catch his attention, and he will definitely make decisions about what he wants for himself.

I think we'll have to be extra sure my wife speaks only to him in Japanese (unless outside English-only speakers are around), and I'll have to keep bolstering my Japanese so that there's no need for reversion to English for my benefit. And if we can stack the deck such that it's in the cards for us to move to Japan for a time, I can definitely see the value there.

Maybe cruel in the short term, QuackingShoe but I hope kind in the long run, to give your children skills that will open up other cultures and opportunities to them!

Thanks for that link, Jessi. I've started reading through--it's a nice long discussion--and I think it'll be a help!

[untmdsprt]

Here's a thought that it seems like nobody is discussing: why not let the child choose their own 2nd language? Everyone seems so hell bent in getting their child in learning both parents' languages, that nobody seems to care about the child. What if they don't care to learn more than one language? What if they want to learn a language that nobody speaks, but the child finds it fascinating?

My 2nd cousin is Chinese/American, and she didn't care to learn Chinese from her mother and instead took Spanish in school. She was telling me that a cute boy was helping her learn the language.

If I had been lucky enough to have a kid, I would tell them they had to learn a second language but they could choose what they wanted to learn, and I'll learn it with them. My mom actually wants to learn a few words in Japanese just because I'm learning the language. She's happy just to learn the greetings.

[Jessi]

I can see where you are coming from, and that's a good argument too. However, the benefits from starting a kid on a foreign language from a young age are huge because they can pick it up with little effort, and it just comes so naturally. My mom is a bilingual English/Spanish speaker but never spoke Spanish with me when I was young, and I really wish she had So I definitely want to give that opportunity to easily pick up a second language to my kids. I would say that once the kid is older (like in their teens), then they could be given a choice of whether or not they want to continue with that language, or go ahead with a new one if they want, but while they are still young I think it's definitely a good idea to give them that chance at near-native fluency.

[Yamanchu]

I certainly have to agree with Jessi. Kids learn languages best when they're young, and you can't ask (for example) a three-year-old to choose which language they want to learn. I know four families where the kids are bilingual, and none of the kids regret learning a second language. I have two friends from mixed marriages who didn't learn the second language and both regret not having the chance to do so.

I certainly think in my case (we live in Australia), it would be rude of me and my wife if we didn't teach our daughter Japanese, as it would deprive her and her relatives the chance to communicate and get to know each other.

If she then chooses to learn another language when she's older, I certainly won't hold her back.

[cmwatkins]

It's good to hear that perspective, untmdsprt. I think the overall theme of this discussion has become one of: You can't force your kids to learn a language, but you can offer them a prime opportunity through exposure.

The comments Yamanchu and Jessi have made echo the reasons my wife and I have for wanting to raise our sons bilingually. As a four-year-old and a newborn, our kids aren't really in a position now to make smart decisions about their futures, but it may be that, as young adults, they'll decide they don't want or need Japanese. For now, a grounding in the languages of both their parent cultures is a gift we want to give them. It'll be their choice, later in life, as to whether they use it.

This line of discussion does have me thinking: Would folks who are multi-lingual say that being raised bilingually made it easier for them to learn other languages as an adult? I think you intuit more language rules than you learn in a theoretcal sense, when you're raised with a particular tongue, but I wonder if there isn't something about knowing multiples that gives you a step up in picking up other languages.

[Belton]

I think raising children bilingually primarily happens at a very young age, indeed at the age they are acquiring (not learning) language. They aren't making decisions for themselves really. You may as well ask them what language they'd like to speak now they are starting out. (answer unintelligible gurgles)

Parents make lots of decisions for their children. What school, what religion, what values, what they eat, when they sleep (or go to bed rather), etc. etc. all with the best intentions and trying to do the best for the child. And not always according to a child's desires. It's a benign dictatorship. (But for a commentary on how successful it all is search for Phillip Larkins poem, This Be The Verse.)

By the time it becomes an issue of being a school type subject would be around the time they can decide for themselves and live with the regrets later (or not). And yet is making your children practice kanji any worse than making them practice piano or violin or making them clean their room and eat their vegetables?

I'm not sure if it would give children an economic advantage later in life. Maybe. Maybe it'll save them a few years study; what the economic climate would be in 20 years time is anyone's guess. Broader values and a wider outlook on life might be better than any specific language. (I'd bet on Chinese myself) And exposure to both cultures and languages might make them less parochial in their outlook.

Regardless it is their heritage and they deserve an effort to give them access to it as a child. Both cultures.
It's also about the parent. I would be very sad if my (potential) children couldn't learn a bit of Irish (cupla focail) and have a native grounding in English, but instead were exclusively raised through Japanese. I'd also be very sad if they couldn't have a native grounding in Japanese and experience Japan and their relatives as a child.
I think it's natural to want to share your experiences and language with your children.

BTW have you seen this?
http://www.omniglot.com/language/articl ... lkids1.htm
there's also a lot of interesting links there.

[cmwatkins]

Wonderful link, Belton. Thanks!