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electronic dictionaries

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sweetneet
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electronic dictionaries

Postby sweetneet » March 2nd, 2007 10:30 pm

I just saw an ad for this cool-looking electronic Japanese-English dictionary made by Casio (called EX-word XD-SW6400):

http://www.whiterabbitpress.com/catalog ... 16466.html

I was wondering if anybody out there has a dictionary like this, and if you have any good reviews about it. On amazon.co.jp this got 4.5/5 stars and most of the reviewers said it was really to use. However, the reviews were naturally all from native Japanese people (whom it was designed for) so of course it will be easy to use for them (all the menus, buttons, etc are in Japanese).

And the price is steep ($330!) but it does look like it could be pretty useful, especially with the stylus and all. I swear, looking up kanji is always a bother if u have to look it by radical or stroke count (as a kanji "geek" i tend to look up every kanji i see that i don't recognize). :) Plus it seems like it would have a ton of good examples sentences. I currently have a very basic, bottom-of-the-barrel electronic dictionary from Sharp (one I bought for 1万円 at a Midori Denki near 大阪 a few years ago) and lot of times the definitions are a bit unclear since it doesn't give that many examples of usage. And I can't really use it to look up kanji either.

Anyway, I just wanted to know if anyone has an opinion on this type of electronic dictionary, or if there are others that you think are better. I'm trying to decide if I should get this or use the same amt of $$$ to buy a ipod instead (i just have a nano, which is great but due to the small screen, the kanji text from the iLearning Center material ends up a bit on the small side).

Airth
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Postby Airth » March 3rd, 2007 3:23 pm

Coincidentally, I happened to pick up a bunch of brochures on electronic dictionaries today including Casio's. Up to now I've been a staunch supporter of Seiko, but I have to say it's pretty clear why Casio has the number 1 market share. Their current range of dictionaries are simply superb. Buy one. Personally, I'd go for the top of the range GW6800 for the Meikyo dictionary, which gives explanations of word choice and nuance as well as a Japanese language quiz. And for the excellent looking Japanese thesaurus.

I always dismiss the thing about them being for native Japanese speakers in terms of menus and buttons. It'll take you less than a month to get to grips with how to use it, probably less. If someone can't put in a bit of effort to work out how to navigate around one of these things, then I question whether they are serious about learning Japanese in the first place.

Much more serious is the fact that in the past the contents of all electronic dictionaries have been heavily weighted towards English. I love my Seiko SII, but some things annoy me; the complete lack of Japanese example sentences in the 国語 dictionary, and the fact that the example sentences that are in the 和英辞典 can only be searched in English. The Casio's at least allow you to search for Japanese keywords in the 英和辞典.

Other features I like in the latest Casio's include:

Kanji Kentei tests using the stylus.
Excellent search and jump features.
1,500 word memory with vocab check-box function.
Big 1,000 word history.
64 bit kanji font - nice and clear.
Customizable menus.
Backlight.
Also, it looks like there may be some way to listen to Japanese pronunciation, not just the usual English, but it's a bit unclear.

And finally, not only can you add more dictionaries later as you'd expect, you can connect it to your computer via a USB cable and upload up to 100 rich text files of 5mb each. That means you can grab stuff from the internet or anything you've been working on yourself and carry it around with you. Presumably you can select and search words from those files and add them to your vocab lists.

If I had the money, I'd buy one tomorrow.

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Ulver_684
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Re: electronic dictionaries

Postby Ulver_684 » March 19th, 2007 2:14 pm

sweetneet wrote:I just saw an ad for this cool-looking electronic Japanese-English dictionary made by Casio (called EX-word XD-SW6400):

http://www.whiterabbitpress.com/catalog ... 16466.html

I was wondering if anybody out there has a dictionary like this, and if you have any good reviews about it. On amazon.co.jp this got 4.5/5 stars and most of the reviewers said it was really to use. However, the reviews were naturally all from native Japanese people (whom it was designed for) so of course it will be easy to use for them (all the menus, buttons, etc are in Japanese).

And the price is steep ($330!) but it does look like it could be pretty useful, especially with the stylus and all. I swear, looking up kanji is always a bother if u have to look it by radical or stroke count (as a kanji "geek" i tend to look up every kanji i see that i don't recognize). :) Plus it seems like it would have a ton of good examples sentences. I currently have a very basic, bottom-of-the-barrel electronic dictionary from Sharp (one I bought for 1万円 at a Midori Denki near 大阪 a few years ago) and lot of times the definitions are a bit unclear since it doesn't give that many examples of usage. And I can't really use it to look up kanji either.

Anyway, I just wanted to know if anyone has an opinion on this type of electronic dictionary, or if there are others that you think are better. I'm trying to decide if I should get this or use the same amt of $$$ to buy a ipod instead (i just have a nano, which is great but due to the small screen, the kanji text from the iLearning Center material ends up a bit on the small side).


This is the best electronic dictionary! it has alot languages in one so I'm going to buy it right away and you should buy too if your interest now! 8) :wink:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/techn ... ir&emc=cir

www.franklin.com

NickT
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Postby NickT » March 23rd, 2007 12:28 am

I took the plunge and ordered one of these today (The Casio one not the Franklin one). I will let you know how I like it when it arrives - They said it would take about a week, airmailed from Japan.

Ulver_684
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Postby Ulver_684 » March 23rd, 2007 4:16 pm

NickT wrote:I took the plunge and ordered one of these today (The Casio one not the Franklin one). I will let you know how I like it when it arrives - They said it would take about a week, airmailed from Japan.


Nick T-san! :wink: 8)

:lol: I know you order that one, you don't need to tell us which one ok! :)

I'm very happy with my Franklin Dictionary! It arrive yesterday and I love it! :D 8)

Michelle
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Postby Michelle » March 26th, 2007 3:59 am

People in general seem to have strong feelings about their dictionaries and are loyal to one particular brand or another. A lot of people I know really like the Canon Wordtanks (http://cweb.canon.jp/wordtank/). Personally, I've gone down the Seiko route (http://www.sii.co.jp/cp/) and haven't had any regrets.

Note that as you progress in your Japanese ability, you'll appreciate a dictionary that's strong in not just E-J and J-E but also J-J. This site (http://www.thejapanshop.com/recommendationsjisho.htm) offers a good common sense list of recommendations. Any hardcore Japanese learner would probably yearn for the "Kenkyuusha's super J-E" that the Canon G70, Seiko SR-E10000, and Seiko SR-G10000 have, but it's not really necessary for beginner-intermediate level students.

As sort of a side note, I have a Seiko SR-T7000 that I might be looking to sell later this spring (if I decide to upgrade to a new dictionary). It's a good dictionary for your first 4-5 years of Japanese language study... let me know if you're interested :)

darthjohnO
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Postby darthjohnO » March 28th, 2007 12:13 pm

I was wondering if any one else could provide info on this dictionary (the Casio), as I am interested in getting this one too. I`m in Japan now, so I`d like to pick one up off a Japanese website before I leave back for the states.

I was also considering getting the Canon Wordtank V90, as I have an interest in Chinese as well (just a bit). Plus the whole screen appears to be writable (not sure if that means anything or not).

Anyway, I like both because of the written kanji recognition and the price isn`t bad, especially here in Japan

Also, I was wondering if anyone knows how updating the dictionaries with an SD card works. Do you purchase more dictionaries or can you get them off the internet somewhere for free? Is it worth it, I mean, can you get decent dictionaries and load them up up on these things to be useful? And what`s this talk of getting the Casio to speak in Japanese, is it really possible? Can you use the SD card to load a dictionary with pronunciation (and do they exist)? Any help is appreciated.

NickT
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Postby NickT » March 28th, 2007 10:20 pm

I received the dictionary a few days ago, the Casio EX-word XD-SW6400 from white rabbit press. First impressions are good. I really haven't had a chance to master it yet though, and also I have never owned or used another electronic japanese dictionary, so I cannot give a detailed comparison, but here are a few of the things I have noticed so far.

Pros:

* handwritten kanji recognition seems good. It usually gets the correct kanji, and compound, unless I really butcher it.
* shipping was free - even though the website said free shipping only till the 15th, I ordered on the 23rd and got free shipping
* the exchange rate is good at the moment, so for me it was quite cheap
* I got emailed a set of instructions in English by white rabbit press. This appeared custom made by them, and was useful as the actual manual is 100% in Japanese.

Cons:

* stroke order does appear to matter when drawing kanji. I have only found one kanji so far where this was an issue (for me), but I'm sure I will find others.
* the full manual is 100% in Japanese.
* pretty hard to use if you can't read the menus in Japanese. I can read about 50% of the kanji in the menus, which makes navigating them possible but difficult.
* the English instructions that I got by email are really no more than a quick start guide. I am still at a loss as to how to use 70% of the features of the dictionary.
* you can't use the stylus on the main screen, only the small drawing pad. This means you can't select or highlight things with the stylus to navigate around, get readings for kanji etc.

Thats it for now. I still have no idea how to use the USB, SD card or speaking functions of the dictionary. I will let you know if and when I figure them out, and whether they turn out to be useful.

Ulver_684
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Postby Ulver_684 » March 29th, 2007 5:23 pm

Michelle wrote:People in general seem to have strong feelings about their dictionaries and are loyal to one particular brand or another. A lot of people I know really like the Canon Wordtanks (http://cweb.canon.jp/wordtank/). Personally, I've gone down the Seiko route (http://www.sii.co.jp/cp/) and haven't had any regrets.

Note that as you progress in your Japanese ability, you'll appreciate a dictionary that's strong in not just E-J and J-E but also J-J. This site (http://www.thejapanshop.com/recommendationsjisho.htm) offers a good common sense list of recommendations. Any hardcore Japanese learner would probably yearn for the "Kenkyuusha's super J-E" that the Canon G70, Seiko SR-E10000, and Seiko SR-G10000 have, but it's not really necessary for beginner-intermediate level students.

As sort of a side note, I have a Seiko SR-T7000 that I might be looking to sell later this spring (if I decide to upgrade to a new dictionary). It's a good dictionary for your first 4-5 years of Japanese language study... let me know if you're interested :)


I'm not loyal to a certain brand ok! I love this dictionary because it has all in one and the human voice its very pleasant! but if you want to stay with your current or new dictionaries like the Casio, Cannon, Seiko, etc it's fine with me! 8) :wink:

Ulver_684
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Re: electronic dictionaries

Postby Ulver_684 » March 29th, 2007 5:28 pm

sweetneet wrote:I just saw an ad for this cool-looking electronic Japanese-English dictionary made by Casio (called EX-word XD-SW6400):

http://www.whiterabbitpress.com/catalog ... 16466.html

I was wondering if anybody out there has a dictionary like this, and if you have any good reviews about it. On amazon.co.jp this got 4.5/5 stars and most of the reviewers said it was really to use. However, the reviews were naturally all from native Japanese people (whom it was designed for) so of course it will be easy to use for them (all the menus, buttons, etc are in Japanese).

And the price is steep ($330!) but it does look like it could be pretty useful, especially with the stylus and all. I swear, looking up kanji is always a bother if u have to look it by radical or stroke count (as a kanji "geek" i tend to look up every kanji i see that i don't recognize). :) Plus it seems like it would have a ton of good examples sentences. I currently have a very basic, bottom-of-the-barrel electronic dictionary from Sharp (one I bought for 1万円 at a Midori Denki near 大阪 a few years ago) and lot of times the definitions are a bit unclear since it doesn't give that many examples of usage. And I can't really use it to look up kanji either.

Anyway, I just wanted to know if anyone has an opinion on this type of electronic dictionary, or if there are others that you think are better. I'm trying to decide if I should get this or use the same amt of $$$ to buy a ipod instead (i just have a nano, which is great but due to the small screen, the kanji text from the iLearning Center material ends up a bit on the small side).


Sweetneet-san! :wink:

Try out my dictionary too if your interest, I really recommend it! :D

You have nothing to lose! 8)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/techn ... ir&emc=cir

www.franklin.com

EricW
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Postby EricW » March 30th, 2007 5:25 pm

Got my XD-SW6400 this morning. It's going to take a while to figure out how to use with only Japanese docs, but a few things I like already: Nice display! Turns off when you close it, turns on almost instantly when you open. The stylus input waits for you to tell it you're finished, unlike my V80 which times out if you're too slow drawing the Kanji.

Update: A native-speaking co-worker translated the button legends for me, but once I get to the menus, tabs, messages, etc. it's slow going. So far I'm sticking to the Shogakukan Japanese -> English dictionary. The cool thing is that you can enter the Kanji directly into this and it will translate to English, which was a multi-step process on the V80. (On the other hand, the V80 had English menus and messages - sigh.) I showed that feature to another guy in the office who was a Japanese minor in college years ago and he said he would have killed for something like that.

I found a PDF for the manual here:

http://casio.jp/support/manual/exword/XDSW6400.html

But it's a "protected" file (actually, three files), so I can't add notes to it as I figure things out. Drat!

NickT
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Postby NickT » April 14th, 2007 1:45 pm

EricW: That PDF looks the same as the paper copy of the manual that came with the dictionary - Presumably you can just scribble on that?

Well, I have had the dictionary for a few weeks now. Here are some more things I have noticed about it.

The kanji recognition is really very good. Sometimes you have to experiment with stroke order though, if the dictionary refuses to recognize your kanji after 2-3 attempts, try drawing the radicals in a different order, or changing up the order within a radical. This is actually helping me to eliminate some of my bad habits in terms of stroke order.

Now that I have got used to the 100% Japanese menus, they are pretty easy to use. I don't find the lack of English menus a problem at all. I was able to use the kanji recognition to translate most of the menus that I couldn't figure out for myself. The more kanji you know the easier you will find it though. I'm guessing that if you knew less than, say, 300 kanji, you would find this dictionary pretty hard to use. If you know more than 300 you should be able to figure it out. If you know more than 700, it will be a breeze. For reference I know about 500 kanji, and it took me a few weeks to get to grips with it.

I showed the Japanese manual to a Japanese friend of mine, and she said that the SD card function allowed you to purchase SD cards with extra dictionaries. So, for example, if I decided I wanted to learn Chinese in the future, I might be able to buy all the English/Chinese dictionaries on an SD card, and use my current dictionary instead of buying a new one. Presumably the USB function of the dictionary will allow for a similar functionality, perhaps being able to download new dictionaries or updated firmware for the dictionary in the future.

One thing that has disappointed me about the dictionary is the kanji searching capabilities. It is very easy to find almost any kanji you see, but the problem is, what to do with it? The kanjigen only gives info about the kanji in Japanese. So, even once you have found the kanji you have no idea what it means. Then, you can only search for that kanji in the initial position of a word. This means you can only actually find a fraction of all the words that use that kanji. Am I missing something here?

Another feature my Japanese friend pointed out to me is that apparently, you can download e-Books in Japanese and read them on the screen. If you get stuck, you can use the inbuilt dictionaries to look up any of the words.

There are a lot of additional features, for example an encyclopedia, Japanese and world history, interesting trivia, even a copy of the Japanese constitution. These are all in Japanese though and aimed at Japanese people. Some of it is kinda interesting though. The trivia sections in particular and not overly difficult to read, and provides useful practice. For example, I learnt that the word Yakult comes from the Esperanto word for Yoghurt. There is also a section on things you can say in Japanese to impress your girlfriend. My girlfriend is not Japanese though, so I doubt she would be impressed.

Anyway, if anyone figures out how to use the more advanced features of the dictionary, I would be interested to hear about it. Also if anyone wants me to explain in English how to use any of the menus or features etc I will give it a shot.

EricW
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Postby EricW » April 14th, 2007 5:05 pm

NickT wrote:EricW: That PDF looks the same as the paper copy of the manual that came with the dictionary - Presumably you can just scribble on that?
I could, but I was thinking more in terms of marking up the PDF and passing it around to others to share what I've learned and to have them add their tips, so we'd end up with sort of a Wiki on how to use the EX-word.

What I'd really like to be able to do eventually is to make my own documents with notes on grammar, particles, verb conjugation, etc. and download them into the EX-word so I wouldn't have to carry around my reference books but could just carry the Casio. I was doing some translating on a business trip last week, and it would have been really handy not to have the extra bulk to lug around.

Addendum: Ahhh! I've had some success in downloading files. See my forum entry here:

http://www.whiterabbitpress.com/forum/i ... #entry1146

Stoise
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Re: electronic dictionaries

Postby Stoise » April 27th, 2007 6:30 am

Ulver_684 wrote:Sweetneet-san! :wink:

Try out my dictionary too if your interest, I really recommend it! :D

You have nothing to lose! 8)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/techn ... ir&emc=cir

www.franklin.com


...Are you being payed to advertise this dictionary on forums or something?

NickT
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Postby NickT » April 27th, 2007 11:00 pm

Thanks Eric, that is really useful.

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