Can I do it?

[WCR91]

Hello everyone. It's me again. I feel like shocking the world once more.

I've decided that next year, I'm going to take (and pass) the level 1 JLPT.

Have I taken any other levels? No.
Could I pass any levels currently? Absolutely not.
Can I fit in 900 hours of study? Of course.

2000 kanji. That sounds like a lot, but I can do it.

Japanese is easy.

Just felt like being overly ambitious. Any suggestions?

[Bueller_007]

Hello everyone. It's me again. I feel like shocking the world once more.

I've decided that next year, I'm going to take (and pass) the level 1 JLPT.

Have I taken any other levels? No.
Could I pass any levels currently? Absolutely not.
Can I fit in 900 hours of study? Of course.

2000 kanji. That sounds like a lot, but I can do it.

Japanese is easy.

Just felt like being overly ambitious. Any suggestions?

If you put in that much work, Japanese will become "an effort" and you'll lose interest.

There's no reason to rush. Even Chinese and Koreans have trouble getting to L1 that quickly when attending full-time Japanese classes IN Japan.

[WCR91]

Heh. I enjoy a good challenge. Where is the JLPT GIVEN, though?

[Bueller_007]

Heh. I enjoy a good challenge. Where is the JLPT GIVEN, though?

This isn't a challenge. It simply can't be done.

JLPT estimates for study hours are quite low, because of the large numbers of Chinese (who already know how to read most kanji) and Koreans (whose own language is similar to Japanese grammatically) who take the test.

Also, the majority of people who take the test live in Japan. So these numbers also don't include passive learning and everyday exposure to the language. (Which you won't be getting much of if you don't live in Japan.)

Plan on spending well over 1,000 hours studying for the L1 test. Remember that to pass this test you have to be able to read as well as an 18-year old Japanese kid who has been studying kanji since he was 5 years old, and has grown up with the language all his life.

Aim for Level 3 in one year, Level 2 in two years, and Level 1 in three years. And that is a FAST pace for Westerners.


Anyway, information about locations can be found here. Test sites are quite limited.
http://momo.jpf.go.jp/jlpt/e/test_info_e.html

[tiroth2]

If you study full time in country for a year, you might be able to pass JLPT1 in a year, although I am not sure I have heard of anyone doing so. Otherwise, I think it is virtually impossible. As Bueller has said, the recommended hours are conservative, and these are class hours; they don't include your study time.

If you want a challenge, register for level 3 or 4 for this year -- it isn't too late if you are in the US. If you want to follow through on your ambition you'll need to be at least at level 4 anyway, so you have nothing to lose.

If you are just starting you should be able to do level 4 by December if you work very hard. If you already know 150+ kanji and basic grammar you could try for 3-kyuu, but you will probably need strong resources to help you. (e.g. an intensive course or a lot of tutoring)

Don't get burned out though! Goals are good if they are realistic, but don't set yourself up for disappointment. Most people fail to learn Japanese because they quit -- slow and steady is better than going fast and flaming out.

[Airth]

OK, Bueller has a lot of sensible things to say, but you know what? I say aim high and go for it. If you can maintain your current mindset you'll be able to achieve a lot in a year, regardless of whether or not you achieve your original goal. Too often many people don't set their sights high enough.

[WCR91]

OK, Bueller has a lot of sensible things to say, but you know what? I say aim high and go for it. If you can maintain your current mindset you'll be able to achieve a lot in a year, regardless of whether or not you achieve your original goal. Too often many people don't set their sights high enough.

I think you've got the right idea, Airth. I'm not going to take the level one JLPT this december, God no.

But there's nothing wrong with charging the machine guns every once in a while.

10 kanji a day = 200 days plus study time to learn the 2000.

And with books and web-based resources, I can learn the speaking, grammar, and writing.

Passing the Level 1 JLPT with no formal study in one year is an incredible feat, but I'll do it.

[Bueller_007]

OK, Bueller has a lot of sensible things to say, but you know what? I say aim high and go for it. If you can maintain your current mindset you'll be able to achieve a lot in a year, regardless of whether or not you achieve your original goal. Too often many people don't set their sights high enough.

I think you've got the right idea, Airth. I'm not going to take the level one JLPT this december, God no.

But there's nothing wrong with charging the machine guns every once in a while.

10 kanji a day = 200 days plus study time to learn the 2000.

And with books and web-based resources, I can learn the speaking, grammar, and writing.

Passing the Level 1 JLPT with no formal study in one year is an incredible feat, but I'll do it.

I'm sorry to be the party pooper yet again, but you won't.

Assuming you have one year to prep:
2000 kanji/365 days = 5.5 kanji per day.
10000 words/365 days = 27.3 words per day.

That's assuming you don't forget any kanji or any words that you have learned, and you never take a day off.

In my JLPT Level 1 guidebook, there are 113 new grammar points introduced since JLPT level 2. Assuming that's about average for each JLPT level, you have to learn about 500 grammar points & sentence structures.

500 grammar points/365 days = 1.4 grammar points/day

Again, assuming that you don't forget anything.

And you have to be able to understand all of them on sight, without thinking about it, because the time limit for the upper-level JLPT reading sections is quite tight. You're reading newspaper articles and stuff from social sciences journals.

You have to be able to understand spoken Japanese well enough to function as a student in a Japanese university.

So, to recap. Assuming that you never forget anything, you will have to accomplish this in one year:
2000 kanji/365 days = 5.5 kanji per day.
10000 words/365 days = 27.3 words per day.
500 grammar points/365 days = 1.4 grammar points/day
Near-native-level listening ability

The kanji, the listening, and *perhaps* the grammar is doable. You have absolutely no chance of remembering that many words, especially since you already have to know the kanji in order to remember most of them.

Be reasonable. If you aim for L1, you'll burn yourself out.

Study for the L3. In August, when JLPT application time comes around, try a practice test from the bookstore. If you pass it, then apply for the JLPT level 2 test in December, and start studying. This plan is EXTREMELY ambitious, but *possibly* doable.

[Airth]

Ah Bueller, you really did poop on his party, didn't you?

There is one crucial aspect to all this and that is the answer is written down in front of you. All you have to do is pluck out the correct one from the choice of four. So with some educated guesses, a couple of lucky charms, and the stars nicely aligned at the time of the test, anyone can pass. People win the lottery, right?

[tiroth2]

But you have to watch out for the trick questions!

Which comprehensive text are you working with WCR91? I completed Japanese: the Spoken Language but I think others might recommend the Genki series for self study. It also segues very nicely with their Intermediate Japanese textbook.

[Bueller_007]

Ah Bueller, you really did poop on his party, didn't you?

There is one crucial aspect to all this and that is the answer is written down in front of you. All you have to do is pluck out the correct one from the choice of four. So with some educated guesses, a couple of lucky charms, and the stars nicely aligned at the time of the test, anyone can pass. People win the lottery, right?

Hmmm. You have to get a 70% to pass the level 1 test.

You're not doing that just by guessing.

[WCR91]

Ah, so it will be extremely difficult. I already calculated 10 kanji a day and 25 words. *shrugs* Anything's possible. Maybe I wouldn't want to work myself quite that hard, and since I acknowledge you as someone who knows what they're talking about, Bueller, your 3-2-1 method is very good advice, but taking 8-hour trips to Atlanta every year will certainly get old. Perhaps it's more feasible to start with level two?

Currently, I have very little resources.
- Michael Rowley's "Kanji Pictographix" book.
-Japanesepod101 podcasts.
-Kanji-a-day.com
-Various websites.

I need more books. However, there's a japanese class coming to town in a couple of weeks, I've already made reservations for that. It's free. I refuse, however, to let up in my ambitious study to achieve level 1 knowledge as quickly as possible. For some reason, Kanji comes very easily to me. In that aspect, I'm not worried at all.

The bottom line is, I need STUFF. Now. I need good study books that I can just dive into. I'm willing to learn all 10,000 words and 2,000 kanji. I just need to find out where I can get the tools to do so.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[tiroth2]

Why not just use the practice tests to gauge your ability? That's what I did with 3 and 4, because I too had a long trip and figured for anything less than 2-kyuu it wasn't worth the travel.

http://www.thejapanshop.com/

I recommend choosing a comprehensive book ASAP. A free class is great but isn't likely to get into much depth, so get a good book and get started. I also recommend Supermemo for keeping track of vocab and kanji so you don't forget them.

[Bueller_007]

Ah, so it will be extremely difficult. I already calculated 10 kanji a day and 25 words. *shrugs* Anything's possible. Maybe I wouldn't want to work myself quite that hard, and since I acknowledge you as someone who knows what they're talking about, Bueller, your 3-2-1 method is very good advice, but taking 8-hour trips to Atlanta every year will certainly get old. Perhaps it's more feasible to start with level two?

Currently, I have very little resources.
- Michael Rowley's "Kanji Pictographix" book.
-Japanesepod101 podcasts.
-Kanji-a-day.com
-Various websites.

I need more books. However, there's a japanese class coming to town in a couple of weeks, I've already made reservations for that. It's free. I refuse, however, to let up in my ambitious study to achieve level 1 knowledge as quickly as possible. For some reason, Kanji comes very easily to me. In that aspect, I'm not worried at all.

The bottom line is, I need STUFF. Now. I need good study books that I can just dive into. I'm willing to learn all 10,000 words and 2,000 kanji. I just need to find out where I can get the tools to do so.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah, starting with level 2 rather than level 1 is a very good idea. The level 3 test is pretty much useless, as far as getting jobs or whatever. It's just good for motivation and to judge your level. And level 2 is doable, if you put in a TON of effort.

Personally, I used:
Japanese for Busy People Vol. 1, 2, 3
An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese
Tuttle Kanji Flash Cards Vol. 1, Vol. 2
Kanji in Context
UNICOM JLPT study guides

That should be enough to get you up to level 2. "Genki" and "Minna no Nihongo" also usually get pretty highly recommended as well, so you might want to replace JfBP with one of those texts.

[rdesiree]

To answer the simple question "can I do It?" ...
I (a newbee to japanese, so maybe I'm wrong) tend to think that Bueller is probably right. I think so because of the time I need to study, and because what I've seen so far, Bueller is knowledgeable enough in these matters.

However, on the other side, I heard lots of time: oh, you can't do this... and then I did it just fine. Because when deciding what to answer, by default we will assume a "normal", "average" person, based on what we know around us. (I don't know how to phrase that in a politically correct way, I hope you get what I mean.) But, of course, nobody is "average".

So, to come to the point: to answer this, I would need to know: what DID you already accomplish so far? Not in terms of japanese, obviously. But, maybe how you fared with other languages (now, if it turns out you're fluent in chinese... ) or other exams in general, maybe you've already got your PhD at the age of 14 years or something like that... well, I think you know what I mean. Because some people do indeed perform really crazy things, but those guys do it ... kind of on a routine basis. So, what's up?