Nikyuu- Concurrent change

[blakers]

Hey, I'm having some problems with the expressions for concurrent change in nikyuu.

「と一緒に」、　「とともに」、　「にしたがって」、「につれて」、「にともなって」というのは、どう違いますか?

Is there any rules to follow in separating them? I would really appreciate any help with this point. Incidentally, I know a lot of people struggle with this point, so basing one of the lessons on it might be really useful...

よろしくおねがいします！

John

[mieth]

と一緒に」、　「とともに」、　「にしたがって」、「につれて」、「にともなって」

first off I dont think all of those items are concurrent change. to issho ni means together. Like I went together with my friends to a party. Totomoni can also mean the same as issho ni as well as saying that something is two things at the same time. Two things take place at the same time or two things do something together.For example : He is an artist as well as a scientist.

nishitagatte is used to express that while one thing changes there is another change that happens by itself spontaneously in accordance with the other thing that is changing.

as you make more money your expenses increase.
as the sun went down the temperature went down.

nitsurete requires two simultaneous changes to be happening at the same time while the shitagatte I believe does not.

nishitagatte and nitsurete are similiar and I highly doubt you will have to pick between them on the test. as in its going to be one or the other. If you can realise that the grammar question is trying to get you to realise simultaneous change then you should be fine as I think the other potential choices will not be change use grammar.

I cant help you a whole lot with tomonotte other than it is very similiar to nishitagatte and nitsurete. In many cases they are interchangable.

[Psy]

First I'm going to state outright that the reason I haven't written a reply to this is because this question is sufficiently above my level. Personally I've never heard of 一緒に being used in the sense of concurrent change, but I know for a fact the rest of them do. The grammar guide I use goes into significant detail on the forms, however since it's entirely in Japanese it will take me some time to compare and contrast. The gist I get, however, is that any differences are extremely small. Knowing the Japanese and their maniacal tests, however, I wouldn't call it out of the question that you would be quizzed on such nuances.

Once I get a better understanding I'll post again, assuming no one else has answered already in more detail.

[blakers]

Thanks for the help folks. Mieth, I see what you're getting at, and the reading I've done since posting has led me along that line of thinking... Although, I think といっしょに and とともに、can also be used for concurrent change when they are used with verbs. I will certainly check that up again though.

What I'm getting is that there have to be verbs of change both sides of につれて　or にしたがって, that is what will come up in the test. Maybe

Also, I read that the difference between につれて and にしたがって is basically just that にしたがって　is more formal.

[Psy]

Found something. にしたがって focuses on the 因果関係, the "cause-and-effect relationship" and applies emphasis on that. Otherwise it's essentially the same, on the topic of concurrent change, as につれて. Note that したがって has other uses aside from this!

The other forms you mentioned I don't know as yet. I'm going to put a good distance between each of them in my studies so as not to get completely mixed up.

Good luck!

[jkid]

Moved to the JLPT section.