Want to learn Japanese , where to even begin!?

[isaacson4175]

Hey everyone!

I want to learn how to speak , read and write Japanese, but I don't even know where to start.

I have watched a few video's but i am feeling a bit lost.....what lessons should I start with and where too after I have finished the "beginner" lessons?


I am a native English speaker and that is the only language I can speak fluently, I have never tried studying another language, is it possible for me to become fluent? if so how long? I am under no time pressure, I want to do this purely for the fun of it and my interest in Japanese culture....but how long will it take just so i can get an idea.

I have ZERO knowledge of Japanese language. So my level is : Newborn.

Thanks for the help!:)

[peterm]

MMMason8967 previously posted the following extremely useful guide which may help you or others:

"The lessons on JapanesePod101 do not follow an obvious sequence such as Lesson #1, Lesson #2, and so on. New students often find it difficult to work out where they should start. Hopefully this short summary will remove some of the confusion.

Overview
JapanesePod101 is based around audio lessons that generally last around ten to fifteen minutes. Lessons are grouped into seasons (explained below) and are categorised by Level (also explained below).

Each lesson has a variety of supporting materials including Lesson Notes and Lesson Notes Lite. These PDF files contain exactly the same information: use Lesson Notes Lite if your PDF reader won't display Lesson Notes correctly.

Levels
Lessons are categorised using four levels: Absolute Beginner, Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced.

The Absolute Beginner level contains two sub-levels, Absolute Beginner and Newbie. The main difference is that the Absolute Beginner sub-level is aimed at those who want to learn to say things in Japanese but don't feel ready for detailed grammar explanations.

Seasons
There are several seasons (or series) at each level. You are not expected to work through each season in order! When you have completed between two and four seasons at one level, you will probably feel ready to move up to the next level.

For most seasons there is a summary of the curriculum for that season. You can find the curriculum from the season's home page by clicking on the Explore Curriculum button. The Explore Curriculum button is also available alongside the seasons listed for each level on that level's home page.

Curriculum
Many members like to follow a structured curriculum. For these members there is a sequence of series called Nihongo Doujou.

Newbie S2 --> Newbie S3 --> Beginner S4 --> Beginner S5 --> Beginner S6 --> Lower Intermediate S6

Alternatively, there is another earlier sequence:-

Beginner S1 --> Beginner S2 --> Beginner S3 --> Lower Intermediate S1 --> S2 --> S3 --> S4 --> S5

Writing
You can find out about Japanese writing on the Japanese Writing System page.

The first stage of learning to read and write Japanese is to learn the kana (hiragana and katakana). A very good resource is the Kantan Kana video course."

[mewes6190]

Hello Isaac-san!

Welcome to the forums and the language!

Well, actually, there is not exactly a "Point" to start in my opinion, simply because learning japanese in speech and writing is a pretty broad task - the writing, the language, the grammatic, the vocabulary - there's a lot to tackle, and since it's all connected pretty deep, you can't learn one thing first and then the others.
So, I always recommend to approach slowly, but in it's entirety. A lot of things won't make much sense in the beginning, but they will later on, when you covered some ground and start to get a broader view into the language.

So, just learn away!

Anyway, there are two tipps I like to give newcomers and which I always think helpful.

1. Whatever you do: Start with the kana! Bevor you start learning any vocabulary, any language, any grammatical point, memorize the two japanese alphabets, especially the hiragana. The earlier you learn to leave romaji (roman letters) behind and using japanise syllables, the better, and it makes understanding the grammatical point, the reading, and the logic of the language MUCH easier! So - before even starting with lesson 1 - learn the Kana.
And also: Stick to them! No matter what! Whenever reading or writing japanese: Use kana. It's hard and unused at first, but you'll use them a lot while learning, and very soon you'll use them like your own alphabet!

2. Learn broadly. Not just the content, but your tools too. I think it best, to test and try whatevers out there: Textbooks, tools, Websites - every adult person learns japanese best by another way, and so there are many ways out there. Try finding which ones best for you. I took a standard textbook for the grammatic, later on expanding that to more spezific books explaining only verbs, adverbs or connections. I learned the Kana and Kanji with the much discussed Heisig method of mnenomics. And I use this wonderful website for expanding my listening comprehension, building up my vocabulary and this great forum.
So, don't stick to just one tool, try them all out and use what's working best for you.

And some extra tipp:
3. Keep going and keep it fun!!
It's not an easy task, especially the first weeks and months will be filled with frustration, not understanding, and selfdoubt. But the longer you keep at it, the more you'll start understanding all the stuff you couldn't wrap your mind around at first. But for keeping at it, you'll need to keep it fun! If somethings too hard - get back to something simpler. And never expect any quick progress, especially in the beginning - it's slow, really slow, and it'll speed up eventually, but only in the long term!

Have fun!

Best
くろくま

[community.japanese]

isaacson4175-san, peterm-san, くろくまさん、
kon'nichiwa!
A big big welcome from all of us, isaacson4175-san, and thank you very much for great helps,
peterm-san and くろくまさん!

I loved how isaacson4175-san put the current level..."newborn"
It doesn't matter if you speak one only language right now or never studied other languages!
There's always the first time Like Kurokuma-san wrote, it's really important to keep your study fun.
Also, I tend to think "patience is the key to success" and this is very true in language learning.
Japanese is a very unique language and very different from English (or, how English works).
So, please don't be scared or disappointed if you face difficulties to understand certain things.
That's very normal and everyone has faced (or have been facing) the same issues: you're not alone on this!

For the "newborn", I think starting with absolute beginner or newbies would be fine together with writings (hiragana,
as a start). Then, lower beginner, beginner, upper beginner etc. which we have several series for.
You're always welcome to ask us any grammar-related or Japanese culture questions at any time.

Hope you'll enjoy learning Japanese and discover a new world

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[mmmason8967]

I am a native English speaker and that is the only language I can speak fluently, I have never tried studying another language, is it possible for me to become fluent? if so how long? I am under no time pressure, I want to do this purely for the fun of it and my interest in Japanese culture....but how long will it take just so i can get an idea.

That's a difficult question to answer! Japanese is a very different language to English so it's a bigger challenge to an English speaker than, say, French or German. Lots of Japanese people learn to speak English: they successfully cross the same mountain starting from the other side, so we can be quite sure that the mountain isn't impassable. So yes, it is possible for you to become fluent.

There's an Internet meme that says it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert at something. I don't think the meme is very accurate--the ten thousand figure seems to have been conjured out of nowhere--but it does at least suggest that how long it takes ought to be measured in hours rather than years. Depending how you study it might take five years to become fluent, but, then again, it might take ten years; and if you moved to somewhere in rural Japan where nobody speaks English, it'd probably only take a few months. As a very rough guideline just to give you an idea, I guess that around five years is in the right ballpark.　

マイケル

[community.japanese]

マイケルさん、

Lots of Japanese people learn to speak English: they successfully cross the same mountain starting from the other side, so we can be quite sure that the mountain isn't impassable. So yes, it is possible for you to become fluent.

This is very true and encouraging fact! Thank you for pointing this out
Also, the 10,000-hour thing is interesting. When people say "become fluent", this definition varies a lot and
I don't think there's a perfect answer to it.
You might beome fluent less than 10,000 hours if your goal is set low, or you could top up to 10,000 if you
set the bar higher.

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[Tracel]

isaacson4175-san, peterm-san, くろくまさん, マイケルさん、奈津子先生、

Good morning .

A professor of mine learned Chinese starting from when he was 35. My Chinese friends say that he speaks better than some native speakers now! He is exceptional, but I believe that most people have the capacity to learn other languages. Sure, it is a bit more difficult when you are an adult because usually we have less time to spend on learning these things. Unless, of course you move to a country in which the language is spoken.

Motivation is a big key. That you want to do this for fun is great. That means you will spend more time with it. How much time? マイケルさん、the 10,000 hours thing originates from research suggesting that practice is the essence of genius. The author Malcolm Gladwell "popularized the idea that 10,000 hours of appropriately guided practice was “the magic number of greatness,” regardless of a person’s natural aptitude. With enough practice, he claimed in his book Outliers, anyone could achieve a level of proficiency that would rival that of a professional. It was just a matter of putting in the time." But this is a hotly debated topic.

With Japanese, I really think you need to 'listen, listen, listen.' Any language really. Children listen intently for a year or two before they start making coherent sentences. As adults we have the advantage of knowledge of our own language to help us out. Japanese is very different from English, but sometimes that can make it easier to learn. Learning languages is a bit like learning music too. You need to listen to the rythm and the cadence of the spoken word. Mostly have fun!

Tracel

[mewes6190]

That reminds me on the old joke: "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"
"Easy: practice, practice, practice!"

Becoming fluent, as I see it, is a simple matter of usage. The more you use language, the more fluid you become. As for me, I'm actually almost perfectly fluid at reading english (Which isn't my native tongue), since I read daily about 5-15 pages in english. I'm far less fluid in speaking or writing english though, simply because I don't do it very often.

That's why you get more fluid, and more quickly, the more you actually use a language. By the way, tracel-san, another reason why adults don't learn languages (or other stuff) so quickly is the brain function, which gets worse with age. "Young" brains learn much quicker and easier, because the neural network extends itself much quicker, it often takes only 1-5 repetitions for a neural pathway to build itself. This numbers grow increasingly with age, I read somewhere, that an adult brain already neds about 30-50 repetitions for a neural pathway to build up, and a senior brain ranges about 100-120 repetitions. Of course, these are just numbers and it's proven, that a brain keeps better at learning new things the more new things it learns - which is why people who constantly learn new things keep being good at it the rest of their lives.

Anyway, as Michael-san said, about 5 years of normal, regular studies might be a good number. Fluency is, as I get I, pretty much a matter of vocabulary. I can't exactly remember the numbers, but usually it's said, that in a normal language, you need about 2000-3000 words for foreign fluency, about 10.000 words for native fluency, and about 20.000 - 30.000 words for academic fluency. These, of course, are also just numbers, and recalled from memory also!

[community.japanese]

トラsan, mewes6190-san (kurokuma-san),
thank you for sharing thoughts and experiences
Both have very good points and I agree!
"Listen, listen, listen" and "Pracetice, practice, practice"
This is very true in terms of how it works in language learning.

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com