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Yet another basic grammar question

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WCR91
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Yet another basic grammar question

Postby WCR91 » October 28th, 2006 4:04 pm

Hi, everyone. I got a grammar book recently, and it's explained particles to me a bit more. I've got "wa" and "ga" a bit more under control...but I'm still having a lot of trouble with "ni" and "de." The book says that "ni" is more of an indirect object marker, but they both mean "to", "at", "from", and so on. Can someone offer any insight?
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Bueller_007
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Re: Yet another basic grammar question

Postby Bueller_007 » October 29th, 2006 2:16 am

WCR91 wrote:Hi, everyone. I got a grammar book recently, and it's explained particles to me a bit more. I've got "wa" and "ga" a bit more under control...but I'm still having a lot of trouble with "ni" and "de." The book says that "ni" is more of an indirect object marker, but they both mean "to", "at", "from", and so on. Can someone offer any insight?

They have almost nothing in common.

"ni" indicates direction [of a motion].

"de" indicates the location [of an action].

However, "ni", not "de", is used to indicate location of existence. That means that "ni" is used together with verbs like "aru" and "iru".
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norgus
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Postby norgus » October 29th, 2006 4:04 pm

Just to expand on that, I think 'ni' is more like the destination of an action (rather than general direction which is handled by へ / e )
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WCR91
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Postby WCR91 » October 31st, 2006 1:17 am

Thank you, Bueller. The book danced around it, and never gave a straight description. Now I get it.

Norgus, I have a Japanese friend who says the "e" is like a polite version of "ni". Is this true at all?
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Bueller_007
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Postby Bueller_007 » October 31st, 2006 1:44 am

WCR91 wrote:Thank you, Bueller. The book danced around it, and never gave a straight description. Now I get it.

Norgus, I have a Japanese friend who says the "e" is like a polite version of "ni". Is this true at all?

"ni" usually indicates a destination, or the result of an action.
"e" usually indicates a path/course, or the progress of an action.

So Norgus got it right.

I don't think there's necessarily a difference in politeness level, but Japanese politeness is usually caused by indirectness, and indicating a "path" is more indirect than indicating a "destination", so it's possible that "e" could be considered more polite in situations where they are otherwise interchangable.
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