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Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com! Today we bring you the companion lesson to last Thursday’s Sisters, Sisters! We’re keeping it in the family with a conversation between ani and otouto. In addition, you might find the conversation strangely familiar - tune in to find out why! For all of you Japanese grammar junkies, today we introduce the negative imperative na, the phrase ja nai ka, and more! Stop by JapanesePod101.com for the PDFs, learning center, and be sure to leave us a post!



This entry was posted on Tuesday, September 5th, 2006 at 9:28 pm and is filed under Beginner Season 1 . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

39 Responses to “Beginner Lesson #118 - Brothers, Brothers”

JapanesePod101.com says:

Mina-san, Today’s location is ハリファックス・Harifakkusu - hello to all of our listeners in Halifax, Nova Scotia! :grin: Yoroshiku onegai shimasu!

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Liz21 says:

First, after JPOD! :mrgreen:

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mikuji says:

いっ石に鳥

There is a Halifax (the earlier one ?) in Yorkshire too!

mikuji

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JockZon says:

ものすごいだよね!

「気にしない」も英語で「nevermind」じゃないかな?日本の女はそれと言ったけど英語にがてである。

ありがとう!

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Peter says:

Nathan, now today’s lesson is a fine piece of editing! :mrgreen:

Mikujiさん、一石二鳥, very nice 諺「kotowaza」!I think Nathan made a mistake. We were talking about the one in Yorkshire. :wink:

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Vicky says:

ただいま

ひさしぶりですね :mrgreen:
It seems like lots of things going on while I’m gone….

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JockZon says:

おかえりなさい、私たちのヴィキちゃん。

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Peter says:

JockZonさん、本当に美樹のブログがわからないですか。だまされているような気がする。 :wink:
「気にしない」=「nevermind」depending on the context. For example, if you were supposed to do something for your friend, and you forgot. Then your friend asks you about it,
“Hey, did you take care of that?”
And you say, “Oh no, I forgot! I’ll do it now!”
Your friend replys, “気にしないで」don’t worry about it or 「nevermind」「forget it」. 「気にするな」 :wink: can also take on this meaning, but should only be used if it is a REALLY good friend and this type of speech pattern has been established.

In today’s lesson, don’t worry about it is better. :wink:

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JockZon says:

Peter-san; She said “ki ni shinai” when we didn’t understand eachother… Because she didn’t speak english very well I was forced to use japanese and use weird expressions that don’t excist in japanese. In addition, she used translation tool when trying to explain something in english. Then the conversiation got messy and we didn’t understand eachother.

- わからないだよ!
- 気にしない②
(and sometimes it popped up without me saying wakaranai. I can see your point about “don’t worry about it”)

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emtee says:

lol, “as strong as a rock”. oh Yoshi …
I really like this podcast, as well as the previous one between the 2 sisters. Thanks JPOD.

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Rob says:

Can someone please explain the –んだ construction? I’ve never understood that. Is it exclusively colloquial or formal?

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Daniel Beck says:

お帰りなさいOur Vickyちゃん! :grin:  But, why does your IM status still say “Heading to Canada?” :shock:

Junさん、

Wow! You’re Take impersonation was dead on! :shock:

Yoshiさん、

What’s up with this “Rock” obsession? Wait, no, never mind. :neutral:

Peterさん、

I know it’s less literal, but I think どうしたの? is more naturally translated “What’s wrong?” in these situations.

And now for some work in the Save Peter Campaign™:
“Here is Aomori” is a mistake, a typical mistake that Japanese speakers make. I teach a class called “Common Problems in Speaking”. In the second or third lesson we cover this one. Here/There at the beginning of a sentence introduces a topic. It They do not refer to location at the beginning. I think a better translation for the last line would be “Isn’t this Aomori?” or “Isn’t it Aomori here?”

Robさん、

-んだ is the more masculine casual form of -のです. It is used in explanatory type sentences.

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Daniel Beck says:

Ooops. In my message to Jun, it should read “Your” not “You’re”. I need to post this correction before Language Police Officer LIz says something. :razz:

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Liz says:

Rob-san,
Please send me a PM so I can help you with that translation thing. You can find me on the first page of the Member List.

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Mique says:

Rob-san,

-んだ is very casual form of -のです

んだ consists of two parts; ん + だ.
ん[n’] is the contracted form of の[no],
and だ[da] is plain or informal form of です

気分が悪いのです。 —-formal
気分が悪いんです。 —-polite

気分が悪いのだ。 —–informal, a little literary
気分が悪いんだ。 —–casual

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Vicky says:

Liz-san, Rob-san is on icat/aim list.
Daniel-san, yeah you are right Police Officer LI(x)-san™!! She already corrected me this morning. :shock:

Where is everybody??? :roll:

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Sindy says:

Vicky gosh finally your here welcome back to the reality not Canada anymore! :mrgreen:
I was waiting for you to come back because I need positive posts to feel good! :grin:

Anyway today’s lesson fit me very well I have two big brothers and tons of conversations we have everyday great lesson keep it up JP101! :cool:

Katie-san you change I notice everything since you skype and ichat I wonder what happen there?:???: remember I’m a assertive and bold person! S_R_C

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Daniel Beck says:

you change I notice everything since you skype and ichat I wonder what happen there?

I think I speak for most people, when I say 「はっ?」 :roll:

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Max says:

I’m enjoying the informal series, but I’d like a bit more info on the ends of sentences. That’s what really confuses me whenever I hear informal speech. Most textbooks I have fluff over informal speech without really going over it in detail.

For example:

のです・んだ What does it actually mean?

and

のに (結婚したかったのに)

どうも!

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Rob says:

Thanks for the help everyone!

I shall get back to watching this glorious new edition of 七人の侍 now!

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Daniel Beck says:

Maxさん、

のに means “even though” or “in spite of”.

のです is added on to sentences that explain something.

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Nathan says:

mikuji-san,

Yes, of course I meant Yorkshire! :grin:

Vicky-san,

Welcome back!

emtee-san,

It was actually as strong as “The Rock” :wink:
http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/therock/

Mina-san,

At 8:27am this morning, Princess Kiko gave birth to a baby boy - the first male heir to the imperial throne in more than four decades. This is slightly controversial because it is expected to halt a reform by Prime Minister Koizumi that would have allowed Princess Aiko to become the first reigning empress since the 18th century!

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Liz21 says:

Nathan-san!
Thanks so much for this news!! I was out all evening so I missed hearing about this! :grin:

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Alan says:

These informal language lessons are great, especially the insight into how informal the various expressions are. I already knew the ‘na’ ending was quite emphatic, but this lesson has reinforced this.

The discussion of ‘na’ versus ‘na’ was also interesting, because the first time I came across ‘na’, I thought it was the normal male sentence ending, but knew from the context that the sentence was a prohibition.

I’m glad for princess Kiko :smile:

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Naz says:

This must be great news for Japan for the much anticipated male heir to the royal family. :grin:

Another group of ppl would also be happy as the maternity and baby industry will go into a boom. it is said that the birth of the young prince would encourage more japanese to get married and give birth. :wink:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5316266.stm

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Daniel Beck says:

I don’t know. Is this good news for Japan? It’s not necessarily good news for the crown prince and Masako様。 :neutral:

Plus, it will be about 30-40 years before this young prince might ever be Emperor (that’s Empra for you in the South! :razz: ). Plus, is Japan an empire? Might it not be time to retire this royalty business? :roll:

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Jason says:

that’s Empra for you in the South!

The correct Southern pronounciation of “emporer” is “the big cheese.”

Maxさん、

のだ and it’s variants all literally mean “It is that [stuff that comes before のだ].” While it can stand by itself to mean “because” it’s not uncommon to hear it get used with から too, epescially in informal speech.

Ex) ったくもう!お前は下手なんだから!

Note that while んだ is very informal (and on the masculine side), のです and ので are quite formal. They usually give the impression that the speaker is somewhat detatched or emotionally removed from what the reason they’re giving. Here’s a very formal example:

社長はただいま忙しい「です」ので、少々お待ちください。

*This extra です in [] would make it even more formal.

のに means along the lines as “even though.” It often carries the nuance that the speaker was expecting or wanting what comes before のに to happen and they were let down or disappointed because it didn’t happen.

アイスを食べたかったのに、お前はもう全部食べちゃったのか?

あいつは手伝うと言ってたのに。

やめた方がいいのに、あいつらまだ無駄な事を続けた。

Note that the first 2 sentences have a very personal and emotional attachment to のに, but the 3rd one really doesn’t even though it still expresses some regret that they kept doing pointless stuff.

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mikuji says:

There is nothing at all wrong with Halifax, Nova Scotia. :oops:

In fact, as I live in south Lancashire, I think there will be a few natives here that would claim Nova Scotia is way more exciting than aywhere in Yorkshire (War of the Roses still going on..) :wink: . Just as well I am a a foreigner..

I’d like to go to Nova Scotia one day. I believe Halifax houses an interesting museum on the Titanic, whose captain lived only a few miles from where I live…

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Hugo says:

I now using Firefox and Rikaichan, what a wonderful program. Thanks a lot for the tip, plus Firefox seems to be a very good program! :razz:

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Daniel Beck says:

The correct Southern pronounciation of “emporer” is “the big cheese.”

That’s funny! :lol: I see y’all can’t spell it either.

Are you saying that ので is a variant of のです? If so, are you sure? I’m pretty sure they are separate (but similar) grammar structures. I still think my explanation that んだ and のです are used to mark explanatory sentences (not necessarily causitive) works. Am I mistaken?

社長はただいま忙しい「です」ので、少々お待ちください。

My wife says this (adjective + です + ので) does not sound natural. Maybe you meant to use an example other than an adjective?

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Jason says:

Are you saying that ので is a variant of のです? If so, are you sure?

Yes, I’m sure. It’s the て-form.

I still think my explanation that んだ and のです are used to mark explanatory sentences (not necessarily causitive) works. Am I mistaken?

No, you’re not mistaken. It was just incomplete. Actually mine is too since I didn’t point out it can also be used for explanatory yet not so strongly causitive sentences. So put them both together, and there ya go. :razz:

My wife says this (adjective + です + ので) does not sound natural. Maybe you meant to use an example other than an adjective?

I know I’ve heard this ですので construction in very formal Japanese before. I don’t remember if I’ve heard it as (adj + ですので), though. So I don’t know.

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Sindy says:

お祝いto Princess Kiko and Japan for the new baby boy great history now I’m learning more about Japan! :mrgreen: S_R_C

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Daniel Beck says:

Yes, I’m sure. It’s the て-form.

て-form of what? です? Hmm…well, I’ll have to take your word on this. But in the words of Ronald Reagan, I will “trust, but verify.” :razz:

No, you’re not mistaken. It was just incomplete. Actually mine is too since I didn’t point out it can also be used for explanatory yet not so strongly causitive sentences. So put them both together, and there ya go.

There you go, indeed. Teamwork! :grin:

I know I’ve heard this ですので construction in very formal Japanese before. I don’t remember if I’ve heard it as (adj + ですので), though. So I don’t know.

Oh, I have no doubt about ですので, as I have used it myself, but I’m pretty sure you don’t use it after adjectives. In the case of i-adjectives, like your example, 忙しい, it would be 忙しいので、 and in the case of a na-adjective, it would be, e.g. きれいなので。 Maybe なっちゃん or さくらちゃん or たかせさん can weigh in if I’m off here.

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Jason says:

て-form of what? です?

Yeah. The のだ construction is just の+[copula], and the て-form of the copula is で. So ので is the て-form of のだ. It’s not a seperate construction. It’s just another form of the same thing. It has the same meaning. And yes, I’m still sure. :razz:

but I’m pretty sure you don’t use it after adjectives.

I’m honestly not that familiar with it’s use. I was mainly just trying to come up with a really formal example to illustrate ので. Grammar: 1. Jason: 0. T_T

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Laura says:

It was “strong as The Rock”. That big dude with a square jaw that was in a mummy movie.

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Max says:

ベク先生、説明あげてくれてありがとう。

:mrgreen: Right now I’m listening to Brothers Brothers 2 where 先生たちare explaining this sentence pattern.

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王凱 says:

にいちゃん、ちょっといい。部屋に入るな。何で、どうしたの。ごめん、今機嫌が悪いんだ。どうしたの。彼女が他の男とデートするんだ。あの浮気者。結婚したかったのに。大丈夫、大丈夫、泣くな。気にしない。東京に女の人がいっぱいいるから。って、ここはあおもりじゃないか。

また、あした。

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timmy says:

um you talked about “chotto ii?” and in english it sounds like “are you a little good?”. when I was growing up with friends and family we adopted a phrase “you good?” and used it all the time even today we still use it. it was
used before entering a family members room or just seeing about some ones mood if they looked down or upset or whatever. but then again I grew up in a black nieghborhood and slang is sometimes the first language we learn. sometimes basic japanses or informal japanese makes more sense if you think about how english does the same with it’s proper terms and cuts them down to a simple saying that becomes a norm for speaking english. of course slang is not a norm for speaking but if you consider that the queens english is the true english then american english is slang. I often have to rememer that japanses is closer to the queens english and not american english and I have to sometimes think british in order to translate properly.
my major is asain languges btw. Peter! your statement about “thinking a little abstract” made more since then people know. I have a natrual gift for language so it’s not hard to pick up but the verbs that is a different subject. verb usage stems from historical and cultural context. sometimes, it is not so simple to just look up a verb and use it in japanese. I thank JP101.com for giving context to how verbs are used (not the conjagation but the actual meaning of the verb in japanes and how it is used as a word eg. Oshieru = to teach in japanese but in english its translates as to tell but it’s a much more difficult then that.) good luck and keep up the good work.

also I grew up in the hood and I know we spoke pretty informal most of the time no matter who we were talking to, teachers, preachers, neighbors, someones mother we had bad mouths at times and, at very young ages. we would even tell teachers to “F#$@ Off” or call them awful names if they made us mad
but, my first lesson from my japanese teacher in highschool was, “the way you kids talk to people here will not fly in Japan” and she then shared some new articles about fights that happened in japan over how someone spoke to someone else. so please pay attention people.

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