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August 25th, 2006 | help Need help?

Learn intermediate Japanese with JapanesePod101.com! Today we return to Ryuta as he arrives home for an encounter with his nee-san. As they catch up on some lost time, the details of a shady story begin to unravel. In today’s grammar point, we differentiate between two different uses of the Japanese conditional tara, as well as touch on some more nominalization. In the PDF, we also introduce the -zu ni construction.

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Voice Actors: Natsuko, Yoshi | Hosts:
Category: Intermediate Lessons |

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This entry was posted on Friday, August 25th, 2006 at 11:59 pm and is filed under Intermediate Lessons. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

35 Responses to “Intermediate Lesson #28 - Pieces of the Puzzle”

avatar Vicky says:

#1 yeah!!! :mrgreen:

avatar JapanesePod101.com says:

Mina-san,

This segment of our epic drama begins to unfold! Are you on the edge of your seat? :wink: Have a great weekend!

Yoroshiku onegai shimasu!

avatar Michael D. Cassidy says:

Weekend!! I’m off for ten days!!!!!!
Bye all

avatar Vicky says:

My itune isn’t working right. I can’t download the lesson for today. Please let me know how’s the lesson today. Is Take-san ever come back???? :roll:

It’s Friday!!! :mrgreen:

avatar Vicky says:

Michael D. Cassidy-san, I’m off 10 days too. Where are you going??? Don’t tell me you are going where I’m going… :shock:

avatar John C. Briggs says:

JapanesePOD101, small pdf correction
In the PDF version, in the second line of the Kanji version, there is a なつこ that doesn’t belong.
John C. Briggs

avatar John C. Briggs says:

みんなさん
   Perhaps someone can help me with this from the lesson.
沢山必要ってわかっていて。
たくさんひつようってわかっていて。
What is the meaning of the って after the 必要。
Thanks
John C. Briggs

avatar John C. Briggs says:

Can someone help with this from around 1:40 in the lesson.
dareka nokote chanto yatte tan desu ne

yatte to omoimasu ne

tabun shakespear takahashi san atari ga

I cannot understand the details.
Thanks
ジョン

avatar Jason says:

What is the meaning of the って after the 必要。

It’s (very) short for というXは. What exactly X is depends on the context, and is often ommited like in that sentence. But in general it always literally means “things like X…/something like X…” It gives a good bit of emphasis to the subject than a simple は or が would. Here X would be こと. So the long version would be たくさん必要ということはわかっていて. So litterally, “I know that as to something like that a lot is needed.” But a better translation would probably be simply “I know *that* a lot is needed.” Some more examples:

-お前ってやつは。。。 “Someone like you is…” [expression of frustration or anger. Here X is explicitly stated]
-私ってバカ? [quote courtesy of Chihiro from Azuamanga Daioh. X is implied here]

In colloquial speech, the と that’s used as a quote marker and the one in という often gets replaced with って.

Does that make any sense? というXは is a bit difficult to explain since its exact nuance changes depending on the situation.

avatar Mique says:

みなさん、こんにちは。
This website is for those who study Japanese, so I’ll write in Japanese.

Miqueといいます。
日本人ですが、この番組を聴いています。
日本語をあらためて知ることができるからです。

Jasonさんの説明、すばらしい。日本人の僕でも勉強になりました。
意外と自分の言葉の文法は知らないものですね。

これからもよろしくお願いします。

avatar Daniel Beck says:

Take Take Take…blah blah blah… :roll:

avatar Daniel Beck says:

Very interesting twist in the story. Looking forward to hearing how it turns out. Good stuff.

Had this strange urge yesterday to watch “My Cousin Vinny”. :smile:

avatar Jason says:

Miqueさん、ようこそいらっしゃいました。こちらこそよろしくお願いいたします。^_^

親切なお言葉を、ありがとうございました。自分の言語のことでも知らないことがあるのはそんなに珍しくないと思います。いつも使っていますから、文法のこととかあまり考えないで使えますよね。つまり、あまり考える必要はありません。普段、卒業の後学校の時に言語のクラスで覚えたことをほとんど忘れます。アメリカでも同じです。ですが、外国語を勉強するために、そのことを知る必要です。ですから、多分しばらく前から英語を勉強している日本人は私より英語の文法が詳しいかもしれません。

avatar Vicky says:

Have you guys read the comment from Sean-san yesterday???
Why people are keep doing that…. :roll:

avatar locomote says:

Forgive an ingorant question, but I’m new to podcasts…:???:
I want to catch up with what’s going on, so I plan to listen to Intermediate lessons 1-27 on my iPod when I have time.

I can download 1-20 on the download page.
Starting with 28, I get it through iTunes as a podcast.

Is it possible to get 21-27? I know I can listen to them on the site, but it’s more convenient to have them on my iPod. Do I just have to wait until they’re made available as torrents?

Thanks for any help!

avatar Alan says:

@locomote-san
It seems odd that you’ve only got the latest intermediate lesson from iTunes, as I have the lot. They are interspersed with the beginner lessons. If I remember correctly (vague memories), you need to configure iTunes to download all past podcasts (not just latest) & tell it not to delete old ones. Having said that, posts stating that people can’t see the earliest podcasts in iTunes are quite common. If I go to the music store myself, I can only see the last 100 or so, but that includes from intermediate lesson 12 onwards.

avatar Vicky says:

Alan-san, love to read your comments. Of cause I like to read every other ones but lately, it’s good read something like yours. Very very good!!!
Just want to say Thank you and Hi Alan-san!!! :mrgreen:

avatar locomote says:

Alanさんありがとうございます!

I’ll play with iTunes and see what I can get.

avatar John C. Briggs says:

Jason,
Thank you for your kind and detailed explanation. I understand this now.
ありがとう ございましあた。
ジョン

avatar Peter says:

Cassidyさん、お土産を忘れないでください。We’ll be checking the mail. :wink:

Vickyさん, have fun in カナダ! いってらっしゃい!

Miqueさん, 初めまして。Peterと申します。宜しくお願いいたします。Please tell us more about yourself! :grin: お願いします。

Briggsさん、you’re now offically our new editor! Welcome to the team. :wink:
dareka nokote chanto yatte tan deshou ka ne
someone stayed, and was taking care of business, right?

yatte ita to omoimasu ne
I think someone was doing it.

tabun shakespear takahashi san atari ga
Perhaps, Mr. Shakespeare Takahashi

Jasonさん、thanks for the help! :grin:

Danielさん、let’s watch it together!

Locomoteさん、please keep us updated. We’ll want to make sure you get the lessons.

Alanさん、thanks for the help! :grin:

avatar locomote says:

@Peterさん

Thanks for the concern. I got them all now. :smile:

avatar locomote says:

ちなみに…any reason why JapanesePod torrents aren’t on a site like Demonoid? Any objections to me uploading them?

avatar Clienad says:

りょうほう両親がその事故に死んだったそれがほんとに悲しいことだし。
ほんとにふしぎなことに二人が東京で出会った。
大丈夫かなさとこさんは。
ええと、、どうしてさとこがこの大事なことを前に知らなかったかなあー。
ドラマだからかも。

avatar Daniel Beck says:

Clienadさん、

FYI, the 両 in 両親 makes using りょうほう(両方)repetetive.

avatar Clienad says:

Ok thats fair but then how do you say both peoples parents. As i don’t mean only one set of parents or is this already inferred in the sentence?

avatar Daniel Beck says:

The polite way is ご両家(りょうけ)のご両親さん。

avatar Clienad says:

Thanks Daniel I’ll have to remember that. :cool:

avatar Airth says:

Thank you for another interesting and informative lesson. I think it’s good that things get serious once in a while; you have to have balance in life.

I realised that I’ve never used たら when expressing ‘after’. Can someone explain the nuance between the following three sentences?

1.食堂に入ったら・・・
2.食堂に入った後・・・
3.食堂に入って(から)・・・

I assume the first one is expressing the feeling of ‘when’, whereas the second is a literal ‘after’. I suppose the third one is giving equal weight to the action before and after. Am I on the right track?

avatar Jason says:

1. Yeah. There’s a bit more empahsis on the situation that happened first. Since 〜たら expresses a cause and effect relationship, there’s a very direct connection between the first clause and the next. In English, “when” is probably the closest in meaning. “When I entered the cafeteria…”

2. This is really just a simple statement of time. It doesn’t really empahsize either part. I guess because of that actually, it doesn’t “steal” any of the attenion from the next clause. So it indirectly adds a very slight emphasis to the next clause. Or rather it allows the next clause be more of the focus of the sentence. “After I entered the cafeteria…”

3. てから is used to express from what point in time some action or state started and *continues or continued over a period of time.* For example, you wouldn’t say, 食堂に入ってから、ご飯を食べた. In English it’s similar to “since” or “ever since.”

大学院に入ってから、すごく忙しくなった。

While this literally says “since I entered graduate school, I became very busy”, it implies that the 2nd clause is still true. So what this sentence really means is “Ever since I entered grad school, I’ve been very busy (and still am).”

Graphically:

1. When X->Y
2. After X, Y.
3. Since X, |———-Y———-|

avatar Airth says:

Jason, thank you for very kindly taking the time to explain each point. It makes a lot of sense.

I gave it a bit more thought and figured out I’ve always been using とき or ところ to express “when”. I’ll keep my ears open to try and identify when people chose to use たら, instead.

avatar Alain says:

[Out of topic]

I think it would be nice for the people arriving at jpod101 (especially for total beginners) to find all the Pdf lessons with the same design, to have an uniform presentation and also to save ink.

Lessons 9,10, 23 to 40, 43, 44, 45, 49 are yet with the old design, as also old intermediate lessons.

New lessons are perfect, but think of the total newbie who discovers japanese and jpod101: he will look at first at these first lessons, not at the 115th where he doesn’t understand anything..

The first lessons are actually your portal, not old things to forget.

avatar Zubair Ayoobi says:

みんなさん,

ズベルと申します
去年3月、インドからきました。
Recently , i got introduced to this fantastic website and such a vibrant community of japanese language enthusiasts . I hope to learn a lot from you all.

これから宜しくお願いします

avatar Peter says:

ズベルさん!ようこそ!
You made it to the message board! こちらこそ宜しくお願いします!

Alainさん、you’re 100% correct! It is #1 on our to do list. We’re hoping to standardize things by next few weeks, as we have something big in store for iPod users. :wink:

avatar mikuji says:

Minna-san

I have provided a transcript of the conversations appearing in Lesson 28 Intermediate in the ‘All about Japanese’ Forum.

TheJPODteam use many really useful expressions on how to talk about words which I hope to precis in a separate post.

As I suspected there is loads we could learn from such expressions if only they could be presented clearly once. Remember the first intermediate lesson where we learned ‘kugitte kudasai’ and the like ? It was a good start and I am sorry it stopped at that.

Being able to talk about subjects and language is very important if we are to eventually learn to ask the natives directly - that will mean ultimate emancipation from just doing Japanese in a school setting.

JPOD101 team, any chance of a class dedicated to such expressions?

Cheers

mikuji

avatar mikuji says:

Minnasan

I have listed some useful expression extracted from this lesson so you can enjoy explanations when given in Japanese.

Please refer to the forum All about Japanese for the post.

Yoroshiku onegaishimasu

mikuji

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