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Learn Japanese and about Japanese culture with JapanesePod101.com. Going out with a group to eat in Japan is a STEEP learning curve. Today we give you some extremely useful pointers that are sure to come in handy! Don’t miss today’s edition of JapanesePod101.com’s JCC!
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This entry was posted on Saturday, March 11th, 2006 at 5:11 am and is filed under Japanese Culture Classes . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
40 Responses to “Japanese Culture Class #10 - Warikan (Splitting the Bill)”
Saturday at 5:17 am
皆さん・みなさん・Mina-san, we’d like to know about customs for eating out in a group where you live. Please let us know!
Saturday at 5:17 am
こんにちわ
First to post!!!
My time as of this posting is 9:17PM… still downloading the podcast!!!
regards! またね
Saturday at 5:20 am
JP-san, thanks for the post! Be sure to let us know what you think of today’s JCC after you listen.
Saturday at 5:26 am
Hi Peter,
Glad to catch up with you at this time. As far as I know, we are of the same time or you are an hour behind? I’m in the Philippines. I’ll surely let you know soon. By the way, I just listened to the previous podcast, and Man, that was a long dialogue. But there’s a lot to learn, so I’m on it.
Catch you later!!! じゃ,また
Saturday at 5:38 am
Still listening to it…
Just want to share what happened on the previous meeting I attended, I came late, and when I arrived, the table was full of empty beer bottles. Since I don’t know the greater majority of the attendees, I ate a little.
When the bill arrived, guess what—WARIKAN was it!!!
I ended up paying 10 times the value I consumed. WwwaaaAAAAA(I wish we could add a crying emote icon)
Any experience to share? I’d love to hear more!
じゃね
ジヤンポール
Saturday at 5:51 am
In the US, many people do just split the bill equally because it’s mathematically easier — this is especially the case for business meals.
Some college kids also play credit card roulette — everyone puts out a credit card and then the waiter would pick one blindly.
In the end, all the different methods should average out to be the same in the long run if the same group of friends go out all the time.
Saturday at 6:46 am
JP-san, thanks for the story! Yes, I know the feeling to showing up late and seeing a table full of empy bottles!
In those cases, got to go for the big ticket items! 
BTW, we’re one ahead in Tokyo.
Pearl-san, credit card roulette!!
That should be the new world standard! I love it!
Saturday at 9:47 am
Around 3 years before I went to dinner with two Japanese Businessmen, who came to India. We shared the table, I told to waiter my bill should be separate. As I have to reimburse it from the company. Japanese Businessmen asked me to take some dish from what they order. I shared only one spoon. At the time of bill they told me, that I have to pay 1/3 bill, it’s warikan. I didn’t have the choice and paid the amount from my pocket. Felt very bad, because of the one spoon, I had to pay that much amount(1/3).
Saturday at 9:52 am
Hmmm, I don’t think I have any unique customs to share. The things I do are a result of insanity rather than customs
JP-san,
You used the crying emoticon
Vicky-san,
생일 축하합니다 (오늘)
)
아침에 미역국을 먹었다요? (Does that make sense?
Saturday at 10:26 am
Hello !
Today’s lesson was so cool !!! I listened to it while I sat in the bus, and I had to learn so hard, and everyone was staring. Really embarassing.
I just love your Podcasts !!!!
Saturday at 10:38 am
Rhonda-Chan !
As for your Question about Japanese Pop yesterday, I hope the following helps!
On the Artists’ website, there are short previews.
For Shimatani Hitomi, please follow this link ^^:
http://www.avexnet.or.jp/shimatani/disc/index.html
There are small Realplayer and Windows Media Player icons of some tracks. If you click them, you should her a preview of the song ^^.
For Hitomi, please go here:
http://hitomilovelife.net/disc/single.htm
Click the single you like, you will be redirected to Avex Page, and there you can also see the icons ^^.
And, for Hamasaki Ayumi, please click this !
http://www.avexnet.or.jp/ayu/discography_sg.html
It’s the same thing as the Hitomi website ^^.
I buy my CD’s from YesAsia website. They have cheap CD’s and FREE SHIPPING !! YAAAAY !!! You even get free stupid toys included if you order more then two products. What a service, huh ! Here’s their website:
http://www.yesasia.com
I hope I was able to help a little ^^.
See you !!
Gevorg≈
Saturday at 11:06 am
Wow! A really interesting lesson! Its a “must know” when visiting Japan. Here in Germany, its very different.
Most times, you have this choices:
- everyone pays exactly the things he ate / drunk
- everyone pays his food, drinks will be splitted
- other person says “I will pay the next drink for all”
Situations like “Warikan” we only have very very very seldom here.
But there can be also a difference. When a persons says to you “I will invite you for dinner / lunch / icecream / McDonalds / ..” it means, the person will pay for himself and for his guest(s).
Also, we don’t share the food. The only normal conversation at a resturant is “Mommieeee, Daddieeee, I don’t wanna eat this anymore!!!”, “Oh honey, we’ll eat the rest for you”.
Thanks very much for this lesson
Fabi
Saturday at 11:14 am
みなさん、こんばんは。
We shared the bill in proportion to the position in the copany when eating out with fellow worker.
The highest peyment;Branch manager, 2nd;Divsion manager,3rd;Section chief,…
Next;full-time worker,The lowest;part-time worker.
And usually female less than male for pay or man trat woman.
Saturday at 2:18 pm
So what’s the ‘opposite’ of warikan? Is there a term for that? And how about “separate checks?”
Hatsumi-san, we miss your voice, but it’s nice to see you’re still around!
Saturday at 2:27 pm
Why… Is my post deleted T_T ?
Saturday at 2:29 pm
Oops, I see it now ^-^;, but what does this mean ^^ ?
“Your comment is awaiting moderation”.
Have I said something bad ?
Saturday at 4:32 pm
Hi! Fabulous lesson!
Not to contradict, but in the West, it is in fact bad form to calculate the amount for each person dependant on what they consumed. Wariken is in fact, a Western concept as well (or least that’s considered good “etiquette”). Having a group of people dining and having a great time only to haggle over the bill is not a great way to end the night. However, if one or more persons consumed considerably more, it would be good manners for them to contribute more to the bill though it wouldn’t be a necessity.
I had a situation recently where a group of around ten had dinner but one person was late and only had a beer and dessert. We wouldn’t allow him to pay as it only added $1-2 to each individual bill.
Hopefully in each case of going out, commonsense prevails.
Hope this helps our Japanese counterparts as well who may be interested in knowing what’s good form in the West.
Cheers and thank you for a great great website! I love it!
Mei-Ling
Saturday at 5:36 pm
Oh! It’s such an awesome way of paying!
I like the idea of girls having to pay less
Actually, when I go out to eat with my friends, this is usually what we do. We didn’t know it was actually practiced anywhere outside our little group, though! Well, now we know what to call it.
Saturday at 6:38 pm
Not necessarily, it depends on a lot of factors. When I go out to eat with friends or work buddies, for example, we generally ask for individual bills. Not that we never treat each other, especially on occasions like birthdays, but generally speaking that’s been my experience.
When we go out drinking that tends to loosen up a bit — people will buy their own drinks, but it’s courtesy to buy a “round” for everyone at least once. Or least ask who needs a drink if you’re headed to the bar, and pay for them. Or someone may run a tab and yes, then the bill will be split more or less evenly.
Families generally don’t run into this of course… but when there are many generations at the table, there can sometimes be a friendly rivalry for the honor of paying for the dinner.
Saturday at 7:12 pm
Hi Matt,
I am coming from a strict point of “etiquette”. However, having said that, there is indeed room for manoeuvre as you pointed out.
Quite a number of eating establishments I’ve been to recently though, do not allow bill splitting and the thought of each person calculating their portion is undesirable (I personally think of it as tacky).
Of course, there have been many an occasion where the gentlemen will not allow the women to pay, or someone will vie for the honour of paying for the meal. I enjoy being a girl!
Cheers everyone,
Mei-Ling
Saturday at 8:12 pm
In N. Ireland it usually is very dependant on the group of people, how much they earn, their attitude to money, their reason for being there, the cost of the meal…etc etc etc
I think though, the high price of eating out in the UK (relatively speaking) means people (paticularly low earners like students & part time workers) are more reluctant to take on board the cost of others because they simply can’t afford to and likewise are reluctant for their expense to be a burden to another.
Having said that richer groups may be more lax. Generally you can fiywe out the group by how they decide where to eat!
Either way can be good ettiquette as _real_ ettiquette is about making those you are with as comfortable as you are conceivably able…
Saturday at 8:35 pm
I think Ormo-san and a few others have mentioned, it is definitely dependent upon a number of variables. I am sure it is so even in Japan. With increased intimacy, the formality of many traditions breaks down, and it becomes evident that despite the miles and ideas that seemingly seperate us, we’re not all that different after all
Saturday at 8:44 pm
Hi Nathan San,
I just thought the frowning emote icon
just frowns, hehe It was even crying. Got to have my eyes checked!!!
Different countries somehow share the same, though not exact, etiquettes in paying the bill. Oh well…
Next time, I’ll be the Warikan-Gachi!
またね!
ジヤンポール
Saturday at 10:46 pm
Hi Ormo
Etiquette (I’m not sure what unreal etiquette is I’m sorry) is all about making others feel comfortable - this goes without saying. I would hope that people would not see etiquette as a form of snobbery - on the contrary.
Cheers,
Mei-Ling
Sunday at 6:03 am
Gevorg-san: all post containing more 3 or more links will be automatically tagged for moderation. This is to prevent spam, but is mostly a preemptive meassure, as we haven’t had any problems as of yet. Hopefully it stays this way
Jonas
Sunday at 6:03 am
Gevorg-san: all post containing more 3 or more links will be automatically tagged for moderation. This is to prevent spam, but is mostly a preemptive meassure, as we haven’t had any problems as of yet. Hopefully it stays this way
Jonas
Sunday at 12:54 pm
:P
In new zealand, when going out with mates, usually most places will have a receipt with all the things seperated on it if you ask, then people just go up when they are ready and pay their part.
In fancier places someone will just pay the lot usually (if it’s for some sort of occasion) and people can sort them out later, buy them a drink or something!
I am a special case as I usually don’t eat anythign at restaurants. Sounds stupid, but I don’t go out to dinner for the food. haha. I go out for the good company and conversation! It’s quite annoying so i usually get a bowl of plain rice or something jsut so I don’t look too out of place. So warikan would be most detrimental to me haha.
PS, in new zealand there is no tipping
but you can if you really want, but I’m not sure of the etiquette. it was interesting going to the states and having to remember to keep some cash for the tip
.
Sunday at 4:55 pm
Thanks for the podcast - I’m learning lots, though I’ve been in Japan for 5 years (2 in Okinawa).
Actually, I think you are over-stating ‘warikan’. It doesn’t always happen at Japanese restaurants, only when you eat in groups and especially at izakaya places. Quite a few of the places I go don’t offer torizara at all, even when we eat in groups. Perhaps these are serving more western types of food - but not always.
And when we do warikan, we often scale it according to position or consumption. Or the profs pay a huge portion.
These days, many of the places we go to are ‘nomihodai’ or ‘tabehodai’, and our shares are the same regardless.
Sunday at 7:15 pm
I enjoyed this discussion of ways to split the bill. General accepted practice with the people I know is to pass the bill around the table with each person contributing according to what they ordered with a little extra for the tip. This generally works out pretty well. Sometimes an invite to a meal is paid for by the person inviting. I was raised this way, and when I do out of the blue invite someone, it is my general practice to at least offer to pay for the meal. If they insist on splitting the bill, I won’t argue with them.
Monday at 8:00 am
Ajit-san, ouch. That story hurt! One spoonful, 1/3 is tough.
Thanks for the story! Please keep them coming.
Nathan-san, I like your style.
Gevorg-san, thanks for the links!
Fabi-san, thanks for the info on the situation in Germany. This will come in handy when I visit.
Hatsumi-san!!!
Great to hear from you! How are you?
CP-san, betsu, betsu・べつべつ・別々
Mei-ling-san, thanks for the post! Please keep them coming. Yes, common sense is key in these things.
Vynnie-san, thanks for the info on your situation. Please try to start using the word with your friends.
Matt S.-san, are you from the East coast too??
Ormo-san, yes, you guys pay a lot over there!! I could afford food in London!
JP-san, warikan-gachi!
Jay-san, thanks for the New Zealand info! Very interesting. Yes, if you were in Japan, I’d ask you to join us everytime for the warikan!
Curt-san, some good points. Yes, in my school situation our Professor usually pays half, while the other students pay an equal amount each. I can guarantee you that while my grades are not in the top 90 percent tile, my profit at the eat outs are.
And eating out at the company is usually the same, a big shot will through in a nice chunk of change, and the remaining bill becomes warikan. Eating out with working friends is always warikan. At least that is my personal experience.
And pretty much that’s what it comes down too.
Andreas-san, thanks for the story! This is similiar to the way I do it back home.
Monday at 9:29 am
Hatsumi-san - great to hear from you. I hope you are well.
Great lesson! Lots of good information.
Monday at 11:04 am
This was the first podcast of JapanesePod101.com that I have listened to. I loved it! You are both very engaging and fun teachers. I look forward to many more great episodes!
Monday at 10:36 pm
Another etiquette tip I learned in Japan was to not pour your own beer. Sometimes when you order beer, it will come in the bottle with a glass. At a bar, the bartender will usually pour it for you. At a restaurant , it’s best to let someone at the table pour your beer for you. And in turn you pour beer for other people. At least until everyone is a little drunk then the rule is less strict.
The same can be said for food as well. It’s best to serve others before serving yourself.
Thursday at 2:05 am
Hi I am from New Zealand and I am looking for friends from Japan
I write my own hip hop songs and have just recorded a song that is half english and half Japanese
I want to learn more japanese and if you want to get in contact respond to this e mail and they will notify me and I will get back to you
I am also interested in finding out what the hip hop scene is like in Nihon
Thanks
Ben
Friday at 9:11 am
Another peice of etiquette. Keep your hands above the table. In the US we frequently keep our hands under the table so it is natural for us. My Japanese ex-girlfriend’s father actually asked me to keep my hands above the table when eating at their home. It was kind of unconfortable for me.
Rie told me it had something to do with emperors and knifes and assassinations or something. I swear, I wasn’t going to kill him.
Friday at 11:37 pm
Should note that Warikan is informal slang.
The formal (but rarely-used) word is:
割り前勘定 (”Warimae Kanjou”)
Thursday at 12:26 am
Actually I think normally when my friends and I go to Izakaya in Japan, we automatically know it’s Warikan even without specifying it’s Warikan beforehand.
Because at Izakaya, everyone share the food. Whereas for restaurants or eateries, people pay what they order since the food amount is for an individual.
Maybe I’m Asian that’s why this kind of food culture is already in me. Sometimes when 3 of us ordered dishes that could be shared among the 3 of us, but another friend is eating her ordered food but wished to eat a bit of ours (just try), we won’t ask her to pay even though she did ate.
Wednesday at 8:16 pm
Hi all,
In Spain, warikan is also customary, but we call it “pagar a escote” (”pay by shares”). We divide the bill into equal parts. But most times someone pays the whole bill, and next time you have dinner with the same people another person pays, and so on.
“Escote” is an old word for “share” (still used in Portugal with this meaning). Nowadays it is only used for low neck in women dresses or blouses, and few people know the old meaning.
We are not so different!
Wednesday at 12:11 pm
In China, if a group of friends go out for a meal, in case of split bill happened, we just divide the bill equally, the amount of food every person ordered is ignored.But usually, there will be one person paying the full bill, some time later, other person in the group will invite that person for thank.
Thursday at 7:02 pm
My first 飲み会 experience, I went with my whole class (I was an exchange student at the time) to a restaurant. We had some food and drink, and almost at the end of it I decided I wanted some more to drink so I ordered more from the waiter. Due to my level of Japanese was quite low at the time, instead of a glass of beer he brought a pitcher of it. And because it was so late and at the end I ended up drinking almost all of it as no one else wanted any more…
However, I ended up only paying 500yen! Win! ^^
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