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electronic dictionaries

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botterli
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Postby botterli » May 2nd, 2007 2:25 pm

I received my Casio just before the weekend, and I'm a bit disappointed. Is there really no grammar included at all? I tried all the dictionaries (I think), but could not even find out which verb class taberu belongs to.

Also, the default japanese-english dictionary doesn't seem to have an entry for nihonjin, or other "compound" words I've tried. Do I have to search for words on the atomic level?

And what is the plural dictionary?

More questions are probably coming up :)

-Geir

NickT
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Postby NickT » May 2nd, 2007 6:53 pm

Geir,

Those are some good questions.

Regarding the plural dictionary, I had forgotten about this. I remember reading about it when I bought the thing, but I haven't noticed it in the month or so I have had the dictionary and been playing around with it, so I did some research.

I found several websites that stated that this function was used to search for the plural forms of words. This, it turns out, is not correct.

The plural dictionaries can be accessed using the key in the top left, next to the ON/OFF key. It is the key labeled 複数アルファベット / 複数ひらがな。 There is also a third plural dictionary, the kanji plural dictionary, that can only be accessed from the main menu. If you go to the right-most tab (便利な機能 - useful functions)then it is the second-bottom option.

As far as I can tell, this function basically allows you to search multiple dictionaries at once. So, if you type say べんり into the hiragana plural dictionary, it will provide matches from the 広辞苑、the progressive dictionary, and even the proverb dictionary and "MyPedia". The same principal applies for the alphabet and kanji versions.

As for 日本人、 you are correct that this doesn't seem to have its own entry on the Progressive dictionary (also my favourite dictionary, easily the most useful for native English speakers). If you go to the 日本 entry, then it lists a large number of compounds starting with 日本、 of which 日本人 is the first.

Incidentally, if you type 日本人 into the kanji plural dictionary, you get three hits. All of them are from the 広辞苑 Japanese to Japanese dictionary, and are defined completely in Japanese.

As for grammar... well, it is a dictionary, after all. I once heard the word grammar defined as "all the things you need to know about a language that can't be found in a dictionary". It had never occurred to me to try and get grammar information from the dictionary, but you are right it would be useful to know what class each verb is at least. Mark that down as one for the "Cons" column.

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botterli
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Postby botterli » May 2nd, 2007 8:49 pm

Hi NickT, thanks for your reply, good answers to all my questions :)

I guess you're right, it's a dictionary. I just imagined somehow that the giant shelf of books it contains included some grammar :) The flyer that came with the Casio has advertisements for additional books, but I haven't been able to determine if any of them has japanese grammar.

Perhaps edict can be loaded onto it? :)

I haven't started using it to help me read text yet (except for the buttons), so I'll probably be happy with it when I do. At the moment I'm just a beginner who likes gadgets ;)

I appreciate the tips you guys have posted, keep them coming :) I'll contribute if I find out something useful.

Ulver_684
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Re: electronic dictionaries

Postby Ulver_684 » May 3rd, 2007 10:42 pm

Stoise wrote:
Ulver_684 wrote:Sweetneet-san! :wink:

Try out my dictionary too if your interest, I really recommend it! :D

You have nothing to lose! 8)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/techn ... ir&emc=cir

www.franklin.com


...Are you being payed to advertise this dictionary on forums or something?


Stoise-san! :wink:

I'm a New York Times member and I do ads for free to help my company grow and I brough this electronic dicticionary and it's been very useful for me. 8) :wink:

By the way the New York Times subscription only costs $3.25 so call now or register today and it would be deliver right throw your door!

www.NewYorkTimes.com :twisted: :D

kichigaijin
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Postby kichigaijin » May 10th, 2007 5:14 pm

just gonna toss in my 2 cents on dictionaries

when i heard that the DS had the Sonomama Jiten and could recognize kanji entered via the stylus, i ran out and got it.
The dictionary was actually pretty weak, as famous as ジーニアス is i thought it'd have more words, a vast majority of the entries the thing does have are just japanese-japanese the jump feature was strictly on English words- not kanji,
Needless to say, when i thought i lost my DS i did feel a little bit relieved, so then i went out and bought a SR-E10000.
Of course, the next day I found my DS.

So now, I use the DS for kanji learning, practice, and games- I even picked up a couple more when i was in japan last week too (tadashii kanji and another simple one).

For word lookup, my SR-E10000 is the awesome: ridiculous number of words, backlight, small, quick, 3 different text sizes, sample sentences, a nice jump feature.

I really don't have any complaints, using both at different times for different functions meets anything i could ever want in a dictionary, except maybe audio.

untmdsprt
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Postby untmdsprt » June 14th, 2007 12:14 pm

Nick and Eric, you two have convinced me to seriously look at the SW6400. White Rabbit Press is also an excellent company to buy from. I would like to hear from anyone that has used the Casio EX-word XD-GW9600 though.

Why only 40 dictionaries? Are they better quality ones?

annie
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Postby annie » June 14th, 2007 3:05 pm

I just bought a used Canon Wordtank C50. (haven't decided for sure that I'm keeping it)
but you can look up 日本人 in the J-->E dictionary on it.

I bought it because it was cheap (7500yen), small, and because under the definition for quixotic it references Don Quixote.

untmdsprt
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Postby untmdsprt » July 2nd, 2007 10:47 pm

Here's a good review about the Casio models. http://www.ideamarketers.com/?Product_R ... -GW_series)&articleid=185864

I believe I'm going with the one Eric and Nick have.

untmdsprt
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Postby untmdsprt » July 3rd, 2007 2:14 am

EricW wrote:
NickT wrote:EricW: That PDF looks the same as the paper copy of the manual that came with the dictionary - Presumably you can just scribble on that?
I could, but I was thinking more in terms of marking up the PDF and passing it around to others to share what I've learned and to have them add their tips, so we'd end up with sort of a Wiki on how to use the EX-word.

What I'd really like to be able to do eventually is to make my own documents with notes on grammar, particles, verb conjugation, etc. and download them into the EX-word so I wouldn't have to carry around my reference books but could just carry the Casio. I was doing some translating on a business trip last week, and it would have been really handy not to have the extra bulk to lug around.

Addendum: Ahhh! I've had some success in downloading files. See my forum entry here:

http://www.whiterabbitpress.com/forum/i ... #entry1146



Good news everyone!! If you have a Mac and use Preview, you can add "sticky" notes to the PDF. They are then saved along with the PDF, and Adobe Reader can see the notes. :D I guess once I finally get my dictionary, I can start working on a modfied version of the manual. Maybe we can all add our findings as a group effort.


Update: I've bought the Casio SW-6400. The shiny red one. :D

smoloney
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Postby smoloney » July 11th, 2007 3:55 pm

This would probably be useful: http://www.e-casio.co.jp/special/XD-SW6 ... tml#XSKD01

If you haven't used the Kodansha's learner dictionary, I suggest taking a look at it and seeing if it would be good to get for your Casio dictionary. I have the book version and think the dictionary is wonderful; it has tons of compounds and explains the meaning of the kanji well. The SKIP method is also nice once you get the hang of out.

I'll probably be going to Japan this winter, and if so, I think I want to pick up one of these new Casios and the Kodansha's electronic version with it.

EricW
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Postby EricW » July 11th, 2007 9:08 pm

untmdsprt wrote:Update: I've bought the Casio SW-6400. The shiny red one. :D

The red is cool, isn't it?

Let us know what you think of it after you've had a chance to play with it.

untmdsprt
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Postby untmdsprt » July 12th, 2007 2:06 am

I really like it. I had to play with the settings a bit. I wondered if I could look up the kanji and get their pronunciation, and finally figured out how to do that.

The katakana dictionary is the best so far, then the travel phrases. I love the fact that I can add more dictionaries to it via SD card when my vocabulary grows! I would like to get the Kanji Learner's Dictionary so I may get rid of my book version.

I have found a way to add notes to the manual. My copies of the PDF are now unlocked, and if anyone wants to help translate the manual, please let me know.

untmdsprt
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Postby untmdsprt » July 22nd, 2007 5:06 pm

http://skim-app.sourceforge.net/


This free app is good to mark up PDF files. It's Mac only. Now I can add my notes to the Casio manual when I figure out how to do something with my dictionary. :)

NickT
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Postby NickT » August 29th, 2007 10:22 pm

Just a minor update regarding the Casio dictionary:

I've recently been making an effort to get to grips with using 国語 Japanese to Japanese dictionaries, rather than relying on E-J/J-E dictionaries, and one thing I have noticed about the J-J dictionary on the Casio is that it uses the Kojien dictionary.

I was aware of this when I bought it, and I remember thinking that this was a good thing, as Kojien is generally regarded as the "definitive" J-J dictionary, and (I think) has the highest number of word entries of the common 国語辞典.

Now that I actually try to use the Kojien dictionary though, it seems that a side effect of being definitive/comprehensive is that the definitions are needlessly wordy and complex and fairly hard to understand for a non-native speaker of Japanese. Another thing that I have just discovered is that rather than having the most common meaning first, the definitions are in historical order with the original meaning first and recent meanings towards the end. This, in essence, means that the first part of the definition is likely to be irrelevant and hard to understand, and the bit you need will be in the middle or towards the end.

All in all I think Daijirin (another common J-J dictionary) is probably a better bet for language learners. This orders the words with the most common meaning first, and has less verbose definitions. Kojien, on the other hand, is probably better for native speakers.

By the way, did anyone ever buy the Kodansha Kanji learners dictionary SD card add on mentioned in an above post? Is it any good? Also, are does anyone know if there any other extra dictionaries available, such as the Daijirin?

Nhonko
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Kodansha Kanji Learner's Dictionary

Postby Nhonko » September 4th, 2007 2:54 pm

First off, I'm about JLPT 3級, if that helps at all...

I bought the CD version (The XS-KD01) from Amazon.co.jp since I live in Japan and it's pretty amazing. First of all, it has the STEP method for finding kanji which takes about 2 seconds to do (though, to be honest, I'm not sure why you would since you can just write it...).

Second, it lists every single bit of information you could want-- I mean, even down to the radical it's listed under, the grade level, and the frequency (Looks like 人 is the 2nd most common... what's the first?). I HIGHLY recommend it, but I would say that you should get the CD version since it's cheaper and with it and a cheap SD card (or onboard memory), you can add more dictionaries or text files (like the great 'counters' text file on whiterabbitpress.com's download section).

Anyways, I'd be happy to fill anybody in on any other questions about-- I really don't know how I lived without it before.

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