Tarzan of the Japanese Jungle

[andycarmenjapanese8100]

I47

。森に住む動物と遊んだり、相撲をしたりして毎日を過ごしていました。
Mori ni sumu dōbutsu to asonda ri, sumō o shita ri shite mainichi o sugoshite imashita.
He spent his days playing with the forest animals, wrestling and such.

This is the same word twice. "Shitari" and "shite" both mean "to do" from the verb "suru". What is the purpose of the second one? Why not just, "sumō o shitari, mainichi o sugoshite imashita"?

「くまさん、次は君の番だ。さあ、かかってこい。」
kumasan, tsugi ha kun no ban da. saa, kakattekoi.
"Mister Bear, it's my turn now! Alright, give me all ya got!"

"Kun no ban" is a typo, it should be "kimi no ban" - Which clearly means "it's your turn" yet the English translation says, "It's my turn." Is this just a bad translation?

I can't find anything when I search for "kakattekoi" so I'm guessing "kakatte" is from "kakaru" but none of the many meanings of "kakaru" that I see in the dictionary match the sentence. What does "kakaru" mean in this context? And what does "koi" mean?

がけに来ると下を激流が流れています。
Gake ni kuru to shita o gekiryū ga nagarete imasu.
They came to a cliff with raging rapids at the bottom.

Why is this "o" and not "ni"? "Ni" is supposed to indicate direction, "shita" is a direction. "O" is supposed to indicate a direct object, "shita" is not a direct object.

Suruto dō deshō, Ki ga katamuki, ōki na oto to tomo ni taore kawa no ue ni kakarimashita.
するとどうでしょう、木が傾き、大きな音とともに倒れ川の上にかかりました。
And what happened? The tree began to bend, and with a big crack fell down across the river.

I'd just like to confirm that this "tomo" is "certainly; of course; to be sure; rather" because no other dictionary definitions match it.

"私は源頼行と申すものです"
"Watashi wa Minamoto no raikō to mōsu mono desu."
"I am Raiko Minamotono."

"Mono" means person. Is he literally saying, "I am a person called Raiko Minamotono"? Because that sounds strange. The dictionary says "mono" is written in kanji ("者") but the "mono" in the sentence is written in hiragana. Is it a dfferent "mono"? What does it mean?

「あなたならきっとすばらしい武士になれるでしょう。」
"Anata nara kitto subarashii bushi ni nareru deshō."
"I am sure that you can become a great samurai."

There's nothing in the English translation that suggests "nara" means "if". The dictionary says "nara" can also mean "as for; on the topic of" - so in this case, is it being used just like "wa"?

「私は父上のような立派な武士になりとうございます。」
"Watashi wa chichiue no yōna rippa na bushi ni naritō gozaimasu."
"I shall become a great samurai, just like father."

I'm guessing "naritou" comes from "naru" but I don't know what form it's in. How does it get from "naru" to "naritou" and how does that change the meaning?

[mmmason8967]

森に住む動物と遊んだり、相撲をしたりして毎日を過ごしていました。
Mori ni sumu dōbutsu to asonda ri, sumō o shita ri shite mainichi o sugoshite imashita.
He spent his days playing with the forest animals, wrestling and such.

This is the same word twice. "Shitari" and "shite" both mean "to do" from the verb "suru". What is the purpose of the second one? Why not just, "sumō o shitari, mainichi o sugoshite imashita"?

Isn't it tari being used to list actions (as in ...tari ...tari suru)? So in this case it's basically ...asondari ... shitari suru.

「くまさん、次は君の番だ。さあ、かかってこい。」
kumasan, tsugi ha kun no ban da. saa, kakattekoi.
"Mister Bear, it's my turn now! Alright, give me all ya got!"

"Kun no ban" is a typo, it should be "kimi no ban" - Which clearly means "it's your turn" yet the English translation says, "It's my turn." Is this just a bad translation?

I can't find anything when I search for "kakattekoi" so I'm guessing "kakatte" is from "kakaru" but none of the many meanings of "kakaru" that I see in the dictionary match the sentence. What does "kakaru" mean in this context? And what does "koi" mean?

I'm sure it's a typo: 君 means either kimi or kun and I'm pretty sure it's kimi in this sentence.

I'm not sure about kakaru but koi is the plain imperative form of kuru (i.e. "Come!").

がけに来ると下を激流が流れています。
Gake ni kuru to shita o gekiryū ga nagarete imasu.
They came to a cliff with raging rapids at the bottom.

Why is this "o" and not "ni"? "Ni" is supposed to indicate direction, "shita" is a direction. "O" is supposed to indicate a direct object, "shita" is not a direct object.

The direct object marker を is used to mark something that is traversed or crossed. If you cross a bridge, you use を, not に. If you walk the streets you use を, but if you walk in the streets you use に.

Suruto dō deshō, Ki ga katamuki, ōki na oto to tomo ni taore kawa no ue ni kakarimashita.
するとどうでしょう、木が傾き、大きな音とともに倒れ川の上にかかりました。
And what happened? The tree began to bend, and with a big crack fell down across the river.

I'd just like to confirm that this "tomo" is "certainly; of course; to be sure; rather" because no other dictionary definitions match it.

I think it's とともに, meaning "together with".

マイケル

[andycarmenjapanese8100]

森に住む動物と遊んだり、相撲をしたりして毎日を過ごしていました。
Mori ni sumu dōbutsu to asonda ri, sumō o shita ri shite mainichi o sugoshite imashita.
He spent his days playing with the forest animals, wrestling and such.

This is the same word twice. "Shitari" and "shite" both mean "to do" from the verb "suru". What is the purpose of the second one? Why not just, "sumō o shitari, mainichi o sugoshite imashita"?

Isn't it tari being used to list actions (as in ...tari ...tari suru)? So in this case it's basically ...asondari ... shitari suru.

Yes, it's being used to list actions and saying playing isn't all they did, wrestling isn't all they did. "Sumou o suru" - "did wrestling", "sumou o shitari" - "did wrestling and other things too". My problem is with the double "suru" - "sumou o shitari shite" - "did wresting and other things too did". Why are there two "suru"s? It's saying the same thing twice. If you just gave me the answer to that then I didn't understand, sorry.

「くまさん、次は君の番だ。さあ、かかってこい。」
kumasan, tsugi ha kun no ban da. saa, kakattekoi.
"Mister Bear, it's my turn now! Alright, give me all ya got!"

"Kun no ban" is a typo, it should be "kimi no ban" - Which clearly means "it's your turn" yet the English translation says, "It's my turn." Is this just a bad translation?

I can't find anything when I search for "kakattekoi" so I'm guessing "kakatte" is from "kakaru" but none of the many meanings of "kakaru" that I see in the dictionary match the sentence. What does "kakaru" mean in this context? And what does "koi" mean?

I'm sure it's a typo: 君 means either kimi or kun and I'm pretty sure it's kimi in this sentence.

I know. My question was why the English translation says "It's my turn" when the Japanese clearly says "it's your turn".

I'm not sure about kakaru but koi is the plain imperative form of kuru (i.e. "Come!").

Ah, that's helpful.

がけに来ると下を激流が流れています。
Gake ni kuru to shita o gekiryū ga nagarete imasu.
They came to a cliff with raging rapids at the bottom.

Why is this "o" and not "ni"? "Ni" is supposed to indicate direction, "shita" is a direction. "O" is supposed to indicate a direct object, "shita" is not a direct object.

The direct object marker を is used to mark something that is traversed or crossed. If you cross a bridge, you use を, not に. If you walk the streets you use を, but if you walk in the streets you use に.

That sounds right. If it was "ni" instead of "o" in this sentence, would that be incorrect?

Yuki-sensei, if you reply to this, do it in romaji please.

[mmmason8967]

Yes, it's being used to list actions and saying playing isn't all they did, wrestling isn't all they did. "Sumou o suru" - "did wrestling", "sumou o shitari" - "did wrestling and other things too". My problem is with the double "suru" - "sumou o shitari shite" - "did wresting and other things too did". Why are there two "suru"s? It's saying the same thing twice. If you just gave me the answer to that then I didn't understand, sorry.

It's because the Japanese equivalent of "to wrestle" is sumou o suru, so because it's in a tari list it becomes somou o shitari which is then followed by the suru to make the ...tari ...tari suru structure.

I know. My question was why the English translation says "It's my turn" when the Japanese clearly says "it's your turn".

Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, it has to be a blunder as far as I can see.

The direct object marker を is used to mark something that is traversed or crossed. If you cross a bridge, you use を, not に. If you walk the streets you use を, but if you walk in the streets you use に.

That sounds right. If it was "ni" instead of "o" in this sentence, would that be incorrect?

I don't think so because the verb is nagareru, to flow, and flowing happens through or across a given location. If you use ni then it seems to me that it would mean that either the water was flowing towards the bottom of the cliff (wrong direction) or that the bottom of the cliff was the particular place where it flowed (whereas it actually flows through that place and onward). But I could easily be wrong about this.

マイケル

[andycarmenjapanese8100]

Yes, it's being used to list actions and saying playing isn't all they did, wrestling isn't all they did. "Sumou o suru" - "did wrestling", "sumou o shitari" - "did wrestling and other things too". My problem is with the double "suru" - "sumou o shitari shite" - "did wresting and other things too did". Why are there two "suru"s? It's saying the same thing twice. If you just gave me the answer to that then I didn't understand, sorry.

It's because the Japanese equivalent of "to wrestle" is sumou o suru, so because it's in a tari list it becomes somou o shitari which is then followed by the suru to make the ...tari ...tari suru structure.

Looked this up. Got it now. Thanks.

Yuki-sensei, can you help with these unanswered problems, please?

[luckydaikon2698]

"私は源頼行と申すものです"
"Watashi wa Minamoto no raikō to mōsu mono desu."
"I am Raiko Minamotono."

"Mono" means person. Is he literally saying, "I am a person called Raiko Minamotono"? Because that sounds strange. The dictionary says "mono" is written in kanji ("者") but the "mono" in the sentence is written in hiragana. Is it a dfferent "mono"? What does it mean?

I think it is that same mono, as in person. I've heard "to iu hito" plenty of times. This and the fact that he's using mousu gives this a humble, polite feeling. Sounds a bit old fashioned too, but I'm not sure.

「あなたならきっとすばらしい武士になれるでしょう。」
"Anata nara kitto subarashii bushi ni nareru deshō."
"I am sure that you can become a great samurai."

There's nothing in the English translation that suggests "nara" means "if". The dictionary says "nara" can also mean "as for; on the topic of" - so in this case, is it being used just like "wa"?

Nara in this case is the conditional form of desu/da, so it can mean 'if', but it also puts emphasis on the word before it. So you can surely become a great samurai (perhaps, in contrast to other people they know). I've seen sentences with nara translated like this frequently, I think because trying to include the nuance of it makes for slightly clunky English?

[community.japanese]

Andy san, マイケルさん、luckydaikon2698　さん
I think all of you have had a good discussion.

1. 森に住む動物と遊んだり、相撲をしたりして毎日を過ごしていました。
Mori ni sumu dōbutsu to asonda ri, sumō o shita ri shite mainichi o sugoshite imashita.
He spent his days playing with the forest animals, wrestling and such.
That is たり　たり　するsentence structure which indicates examples and the last する changed to te form to join the next clause.

2. 「くまさん、次は君の番だ。さあ、かかってこい。」
kumasan, tsugi ha kun no ban da. saa, kakattekoi.
"Mister Bear, it's my turn now! Alright, give me all ya got!"
We are sorry. The translation must be “it’s your turn now”.
The かかる means attack, assault and 来い is command form of 来る.

3. がけに来ると下を激流が流れています。
Gake ni kuru to shita o gekiryū ga nagarete imasu.
They came to a cliff with raging rapids at the bottom.
流れる, 通る and so on can take particle をwhen it indicates the location.
Particle をis not always object marker. We have some exceptions.
に is destination marker as you know and if you say 下に流れる, it means “the water goes to the bottom (under)”.

4. Suruto dō deshō, Ki ga katamuki, ōki na oto to tomo ni taore kawa no ue ni kakarimashita.
するとどうでしょう、木が傾き、大きな音とともに倒れ川の上にかかりました。
And what happened? The tree began to bend, and with a big crack fell down across the river.
Tomoni means with, tother, both. Also it indicates “at the same time”.
falling and the sound occured at the same time.
For example,
テレビの普及と共に方言の標準化が促進されてきた。
With the spread of television, the standardization of dialects has been accelerated.

5. "私は源頼行と申すものです"
"Watashi wa Minamoto no raikō to mōsu mono desu."
"I am Raiko Minamotono."
I think the name is Yoriyuki Minamoto…anyway,
You can use kanji 者 and your translation is correct. Andy san.

6. 「あなたならきっとすばらしい武士になれるでしょう。」
"Anata nara kitto subarashii bushi ni nareru deshō."
"I am sure that you can become a great samurai."
We can’t use direct translation sometimes because the other language doesn’t have the word.
This なら is an auxiliary verb has the same meaning as だとしたら.　Therefore, you can replace だとしたら with なら. And だとしたらis often used to the person is recognised as skilled, academic or strong and so on. Wa can be used instead however, it is weaker than なら.　Using なら can empathise “YOU ARE STRONG”.
Consequently, the meaning is
(You are the person who I recognised as strong, therefore) I am sure that you can become a great samurai.

Yuki 　由紀
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