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Learn Japanese at JapanesePod101.com! At school there are always a few students who don’t fit in. A good teacher worries about these students and tries to help them succeed. In today’s lesson we have a familiar situation. It’s a bit of a serious lesson, so time to be majime and study hard! Today’s lesson reviews kuse ni and introduces a very advanced grammar point (we’re talking JLPT1 here), ja arumai shi. After listening, stop by JapanesePod101.com and be sure to leave us a post!

Grammar: , | Function: | Topic: , , | Politeness Level: ,


This entry was posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 6:30 pm and is filed under Lower Intermediate Season 1 . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

44 Responses to “Lower Intermediate Lesson #38 - Problem Child”

JapanesePod101.com says:

Mina-san, We planted a kanji joke in this dialog.  Can anyone spot it?

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doraemon says:

Yay! More advanced grammar please :mrgreen:

It´s good not to forget intermediate students!

Thanks a bunch :razz:

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markystar says:

doraemonさん、we’ve got some good advanced grammar coming down the pipe over the next weeks. so hope it’s good for you! :mrgreen:

marky

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Alain says:

The kuse ni grammar point is very interesting.

Can you upload the Dialog to the Premium feed?
Thank you.

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Chris (KC8UFV) says:

Is it just me, or is the dialog file exactly the same as the regular file today?

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maxiewawa says:

Eeee I absolutely hate those 4 character sayings. In Chinese we call them 成语. Some people think they make you sound more educated, I dont like them at all. Often when someone tries to explain you something in Chinese, if they can’t do a good job of it, they’ll pull one of these 成语 out and say ‘well it’s kinda like that’ and not explain it at all.

The only ‘kanji joke’ I can get is the relation between ‘entering’ (入) his circle of friends, and not displaying/bringing out (出) his emotions.

間違ったくせに?まさか!

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クリストファー (KC8UFV) says:

Never mind, seems to be working now

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Javizy says:

Good to hear more Japanese in these lessons, and I agree, keep the grammar coming. It seems to open windows that I didn’t know were there. I recently learnt the 訳がない construction from an intermediate lesson, and I’ve heard it so many times since it’s like ‘how did I get by without it?’.

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mieth says:

there is an issue with the lesson on the website. It won’t stream.

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Charley says:

What does it mean “antileech protected”?

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Eran says:

Mina-san,

We just got word from our media host provider that at about 2:30 EST on Thursday, Aug 23, there was a momentary DNS misconfiguration that may have caused some users to be unable to access media files hosted on their servers (i.e. our audio). The situation was recognized and resolved immediately, but due to the nature of the DNS system, some users have cached the incorrect data, either on their computer, or on the ISP DNS servers. As with everything DNS related, the caches will time out, and the correct data will be received, and we’ve been told the maximum time this will take is 24 hours. (It’s usually much shorter, however) In the meantime, a potential remedy for end users is a reboot of their computer to hopefully flush that local cache. We apologize for any downtime.

- Eran

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bakaneko says:

My favorite yojijukugo: 有前無後,打死罷就。 :mrgreen:

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Victoria says:

Maikaiwa to bunten no lesson arigatou gozaimashita! Jp101 no sugoku lesson wo kiite koto kara, nihongo no SAT de yoku dekite kanji ga arimasu! Kyou “jya arumai shi” wo tsukutte yatte mitai ne~

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markystar says:

nobody found our kanji joke…. yet :wink:

marky

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クリストファー (KC8UFV) says:

Erinさん

Is that AM or PM? OR, what time UTC?

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Eran says:

That would be 2:30PM EST. - Eran

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maxiewawa says:

So it’s not 出/入?

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JockZon (JZ) says:

I can’t find the joke either. I don’t really know what to look for :roll:

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JapanesePod101.com says:

well, it’s not a particularly funny one but…
here’s a hint: compare the audio to the transcript :wink:

marky

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Alain says:

湾曲 【わんきょく】 twist (vs ) ?

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Shungen says:

hey JPOD101

I had problems downloading this episode…it failed yesterday so I tried today, and it still doesn’t work…

I am so eager to get stuck in for the lesson….

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Eran says:

Shungen-san,

If you scroll up about 10 comments, you’ll see a comment I made yesterday regarding this issue.

Sorry for the inconvenience and and thanks for your support.

- Eran

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Charley says:

In Georgia, I’m still getting this inability to download the audio, both for the 23rd’s lesson and the 24th’s. Is there nothing one can do?

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Eran says:

Hi Charley-san,

I am terribly sorry to hear that you still can’t access audio. It is possible, but rare, that DNS cache can be stored for upwards of 72 hours. Having said that, there is something you can do that should solve the problem:

1) Using your favorite text editor, open your system’s hosts file (c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\ on Windows XP and /etc on Max OS X)

2) Add the following 3 lines to the bottom of the file:

216.246.5.5 media.libsyn.com
38.100.193.81 media.libsyn.com
205.234.175.175 cache.libsyn.com

This should fix the issue.

- Eran

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Bob1 says:

It was indeed a challenge to search for it, but I believe that Alain spotted it correctly. The word in the vocabulary was 婉曲 (enkyoku) for euphemism or circumlocution, but the speaker said 湾曲 (wankyoku), meaning twist, bend or crook. But this makes sense to me meaning-wise, since circumlocution simply means a circuitous (twisting) way of saying something. Would it be fair to say that either word used in this context would have nearly the same meaning?

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Scott Curry says:

Does any of the JPod crew have kids?

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Sindy says:

Scott Curry-san! :wink:

I don’t have kids, I’m 23 years old, single and enjoying NYC! :cool: :wink:

BTW Mina-san thank you for asking me if I’m a guy or gal :???: :shock: I made a mistake and in the JP101 listeners photos in my picture it should say gals, I make a mistake and click on guys :oops: nobody is perfect. :lol: :mrgreen: S_R_C

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markystar says:

bob1さん & alainさん、you guys are correct!! that is awesome! :shock: i’m very, very impressed. as for the nuance, i’ll defer to naomi先生.

marky

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Naomi says:

Alain-san and Bob 1-san

Both婉曲enkyoku and湾曲wankyoku are big words and their meanings are pretty similar. But 婉曲enkyoku is more abstract. 婉曲表現Enkyoku hyougen (hyougen/ expression) is translated as euphemistic expression or circumlocution. Whereas 湾曲wankyoku is used to describe something more concrete. 湾曲した鼻Wankyoku shita hana (curved nose).
I think 婉曲enkyoku is used for something you CAN NOT actually see and 湾曲wankyoku is used for something you CAN actually see.
The reason Take, the voice actor, read it wrong is they have similar meanings and pronunciation. Quite a few people confuse these two words easily. :oops:

Naomi

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Phil says:

Hi all, sorry to be out of date getting to this lesson but I’m trying hard to catch up! (and I’m almost there now!) Some of the vocab in this lesson was rather over my head, it was a pretty difficult lesson for a lower intermediate!

Could someone tell me what “ikkō ni” means please?

Thanks!

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Jean-Michel says:

Hi Phil, as I understand, 一向に employed with a negative verb means: (not) at all, absolutely not.
Here the sentence is incomplete but we can guess the 先生 means : no success at all.

BTW I do not catch さめている at the beginning of the dialog, nor 当てても in the middle. Any hint? Thanks.

In the romaji transcript, is “o-yago-san” correct? It seems to me that it should be hyphenated as oyago-san since the first kanji is oya = parent(s) [i.e. the o is not honorific prefix here].

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BusinesKey says:

This lesson is way way too hard for being put in lower intermediate I think.
Way to hard ! However I enjoy your show Thank you !!!

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ベン says:

今日のレソンわとてもよかた。ありがとございました。みんあーさんがんばりましょう。 :nihon:

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tim t. says:

oops, could we have a “lesson notes lite” please - pdf won’t show anything.
thanks

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Jessi says:

Tim T.さん,
Thanks for posting!
Unfortunately, most lessons in this season don’t have Lesson Notes Lite versions yet (because they are quite old). It may take us a while before we get around to them, so we ask for your patience, Thanks! :smile:

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tim t. says:

thanks Jessi!
most of the lessons work in pdf for me - maybe every one in ten or so i need a lesson lite. thanks again!

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Nobap says:

What does さめている mean in:

“妙にさめている”?

And does it have a kanji?
覚める、冷める。。?

Thank you. :smile:

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Naomi says:

Nobap-san
It’s usually written as 醒める. But 覚める is also OK.
醒めている describes the attitude being very calm or sober.

I hope this helps. :wink:

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JimS. says:

おもてに出さないんです is a new one for me. Is おもて 表 (surface, face) or 面 (surface, face, Noh Mask)?

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Naomi says:

JimS-san
Great question. Although 表 and 面 has similar meaning, the kanji 表 is the one used. :wink:
表に出す は「感情を顔や態度で表現する express one’s feeling or emotion through one’s facial expression or attitude 」という意味です。 :razz:

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Tachikoma says:

Tough lesson this one, quite a bit in here which I don’t understand. The PDF sadly hasn’t helped either.

“みょうにさめているかんじがするんです” Okay.. ‘myou ni’… what does this mean? Typing myou into the JPod dictionary comes back with three meanings, of which I assume ’strange, unusual’ is the correct one here? Also I’m not sure what ’semeru’ means here. Doesn’t it mean to blame? Also, ‘kanji ga suru’, why is ‘ga’ the particle used here?

“おともだちのわにはいらないで” The combination of three particles together here - no, wa, and ni’. I wasn’t aware you could put three particles together like this! What do they all do here?

“あなたもしんじんのせんせいじゃあるまいし”. What does ‘arumai’ mean?

“あててもなにもいいません” - What is the verb used here? (’atete’)

“こころをひらかせようと、いろいろどりょくしているんですが・・・いっこうに” Few things here - “hirakase you” What verb is this? And the construction ‘you to’ means ‘trying to’?

“そのあたりをおやごさんにえんきょくにきいてみてください” The word I’m lost on here is ‘enkyoku’. The English in vocab list is “euphemistic, circumlocution”, which means to mask something unpleasant with nicer language. This is nowhere to be seen in the translation however, which simply says “So try and ask the student’s parents about this”

All most confusing. This lesson is I have to say, very difficult!

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JimS. says:

I will take a shot at your questions.

みょうに 妙に Means in a strange manner or strangely.

さめる 冷める Means to cool down one’s interest.

I’ll let someone else explain the が in 感じがする。 が Always gives me fits.

The わ In のわに Is not a particle. わ Never is as far as I know. Perhaps you are thinking of は。 Anyway, check the kanji. This わ is 輪 which in this case means circle, as in circle of friends.

あるまいし is explained in the recording if I recall, but here’s a link you might find useful. It might be a flawed explanation, but I think of it as a version of じゃないだろう? http://www.japanesepod101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4734

あてて is 当てる which in this context means “to know the answer”.

The verb used in ひらかせよう is 開く ひらく meaning To Open. The teacher is trying to open the student’s heart. I think you’d call this conjugation the causative case, though I get those terms confused.

えんきょく 婉曲 means indirectly. So, the sensei is saying try to ask the parents about this in a roundabout, indirect, tactful fashion.

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Kat says:

Tachikomaさん

Thanks for your questions - all very pertinent :smile: .

1. I tend to ignore the dictionary translations and think of みょうに (妙に) as “kind of ~”, “strangely ~” or “weirdly ~ ” in English. So for example 妙に感動する would be “weirdly emotionally moved”, or “emotionally moved in a strange way”. So the sentence you quoted - みょうにさめているかんじがするんです - means “I get the sort of feeling/a strange feeling he’s attacking me”.

2. 感じがする is a set phrase meaning “get the feeling that ~”.

3. This is one of those cases where it actually hinders you to read the hiragana rather than the kanji :wink: . The original sentence is お友達の輪に入らないですし感情表現というか。。。 The three particles which you mentioned are actually not all particles: の輪に (no wa ni) means “into the circle”.

4. じゃあるまい is the same as じゃない, but more masculine/archaic. I use it when I’m joking sometimes, or to emphasize something. So here it would be something like “You’re NOT a new teacher” or “You’re definitely not a new teacher”.

5.Again, let’s take a look at the kanji: 当てても何も言いません。 The verb here is 当てる (あてる), which literally means “to hit” or “to hit the mark” (among other things), but here is used colloquially to mean “to know the right answer”.

6. 心を開かせようと、色々努力しているんですが・・・一向に。The verb 開かせる (ひらかせる) means “to make something open). よう is a separate grammatical construction (not part of the verb) meaning “to attempt to”, “to aim at”, or “so that”. So yes you’re right, ようと means “trying to”, here.

7. その辺りを親御さんに婉曲に聞いてみてください。You’re absolutely right - 婉曲に (えんきょくに) means “euphemistically” or perhaps more appropriately here “tactfully”, so “Please try tactfully asking his parents about it”. I must admit the translation of this sentence in particular could be much better :oops: !

I hope this helps you a bit. I really do recommend avoiding the pure-hiragana passages unless you’re really and truly stuck; as you’ve found, it’s very hard to separate parts of speech when there are no kanji to tell you what’s a verb, what’s a noun and what’s a particle! :smile:

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Kat says:

ETA: Please excuse me, I translated the verb in the first sentence you quoted as “semeru” (攻める), which is “to attack”, but I realized after posting that it is in fact “sameru” (冷める), which is “to grow cold” or “to be cold”. すみませんでした! :roll:

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