Comments on: Intermediate Lesson #48 - My Tokyo Traveblogue - Day 8 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/ Learn Japanese with Daily Podcasts from Tokyo Whether you are Japan-bound or a seasoned speaker, our lessons offer something for everyone. We incorporate culture and current issues into each episode to give the most informative, both linguistically and culturally, podcasts possible. For those of you with just the plane ride to prepare, check our survival phrase series at Japanesepod101.com. One of these phrases just might turn your trip into the best one ever! Yoroshiku O-negai Shimasu! Mon, 21 May 2012 15:28:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.11 by: chilan http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-604908 Tue, 24 May 2011 09:36:50 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-604908 Thank you マーキー さん tell us about: ～そう (～sou) conveys the meaning of ’seems/looks like’ or ‘on the verge of’ ～がる (～garu) conveys the meaning of ‘pretending’ or ‘posing’ ママとパパはすごい。ママは「強がる｣そうな。パパは「パパバカ]. haha Thank you マーキー さん tell us about:

～そう (～sou) conveys the meaning of ’seems/looks like’ or ‘on the verge of’

～がる (～garu) conveys the meaning of ‘pretending’ or ‘posing’

ママとパパはすごい。ママは「強がる｣そうな。パパは「パパバカ]. haha

]]> by: marky star http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-93108 Sun, 04 Mar 2007 17:55:27 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-93108 i think it's hilarious that this thread turned into a SMAP thread. LOL. もう、now i have that damn ありがとう song stuck in my head. :lol: :evil: :lol: i think it’s hilarious that this thread turned into a SMAP thread. LOL.

もう、now i have that damn ありがとう song stuck in my head.
:lol: :evil: :lol:

]]> by: Alan http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-90921 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:58:57 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-90921 ミシェルさん、あの歌は私が歌えると思いますがカラオケのサウンドトラックを持たない。でも「夜空ノムコウ」と「らいおんハート」を持ってる。:lol: 三番のビデオは面白くて楽しかったです。よくできましたね。:smile: ミシェルさん、あの歌は私が歌えると思いますがカラオケのサウンドトラックを持たない。でも「夜空ノムコウ」と「らいおんハート」を持ってる。 :lol:

三番のビデオは面白くて楽しかったです。よくできましたね。 :smile:

]]> by: ミシェル http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89722 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 00:18:43 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89722 Ah, I might as well finish what I begin... :oops: If you're interested, this is the "classic" release of the SMAP single: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnAM1KyvqcA (note that SMAP is not know for sounding great live). For a laugh, make sure to take a look at their coordinated movements on the chorus. Now take a look at these ladies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RolZOT25UHg (is it just me, or does it sound sort of like a country rendition) And if you want to raise your blood pressure, you can watch this clip from a Japanese TV karaoke competition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUJ-O3oC1vI . Just FYI, the contestants don't have the lyrics in front of them, and they don't know what song they're going to receive. Ah, I might as well finish what I begin… :oops:

If you’re interested, this is the “classic” release of the SMAP single: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnAM1KyvqcA (note that SMAP is not know for sounding great live).

For a laugh, make sure to take a look at their coordinated movements on the chorus. Now take a look at these ladies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RolZOT25UHg (is it just me, or does it sound sort of like a country rendition)

And if you want to raise your blood pressure, you can watch this clip from a Japanese TV karaoke competition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUJ-O3oC1vI . Just FYI, the contestants don’t have the lyrics in front of them, and they don’t know what song they’re going to receive.

]]> by: ミシェル http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89688 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 00:01:59 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89688 私は「どころか」と「～がる」という文法は聞いたことがあるけど、自分の話でまだ使わなかった。ですから、紹介ありがとう！ 実はポッドキャストで「～がる」の説明が出たら、「この表現がよく聴こえるのはどこかしら？」について熱心に考えて．．．結局、思い出した。 ちょっと恥ずかしいことですけど (sort of along the lines of admitting to listening to N'SYC)、SMAPが歌う「世界に一つだけの花」です： (see the ~garu in the last line of the lyrics below?) それなのに　僕ら人間は どうしてこうも比べたがる？ 一人一人違うのに　その中で 一番になりたがる? 私は「どころか」と「～がる」という文法は聞いたことがあるけど、自分の話でまだ使わなかった。ですから、紹介ありがとう！

実はポッドキャストで「～がる」の説明が出たら、「この表現がよく聴こえるのはどこかしら？」について熱心に考えて．．．結局、思い出した。

ちょっと恥ずかしいことですけど (sort of along the lines of admitting to listening to N’SYC)、SMAPが歌う「世界に一つだけの花」です： (see the ~garu in the last line of the lyrics below?)

それなのに　僕ら人間は
どうしてこうも比べたがる？
一人一人違うのに　その中で
一番になりたがる?

]]> by: アニタ　ビヤヌエバ http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89404 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 20:07:43 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89404 marky-starさん, thanx for the other translation of that 2nd sentence, i like yours better. :) and i did get that sentence from the book, thankfully it's not from true experience!! :mrgreen: and Alan-さん , thanks for that explanation! as i'm more of a science/technical person, i always can appreciate the more "mathematical" representations of grammar. :D by the way, i just realized that in this lesson's conversation, the "not only" meaning of dokoroka is also used. like when the mother says 元気がないどころか。when talking about the father. I guess it's supposed to mean something like "Not only is he not well, [but he's crying his eyes out/having a breakdown/etc]". Oh, and I also just noticed that there is also a good description of dokoroka in the Grammar Bank on this site. :) marky-starさん, thanx for the other translation of that 2nd sentence, i like yours better. :) and i did get that sentence from the book, thankfully it’s not from true experience!! :mrgreen:

and Alan-さん , thanks for that explanation! as i’m more of a science/technical person, i always can appreciate the more “mathematical” representations of grammar. :D

by the way, i just realized that in this lesson’s conversation, the “not only” meaning of dokoroka is also used. like when the mother says 元気がないどころか。when talking about the father. I guess it’s supposed to mean something like “Not only is he not well, [but he’s crying his eyes out/having a breakdown/etc]”.

Oh, and I also just noticed that there is also a good description of dokoroka in the Grammar Bank on this site. :)

]]> by: Alan http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89299 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 18:18:06 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89299 >「こんなに成績が悪いと、就職どころか卒業も危ない。」 I notice アニタさん has reversed the order the two clauses when translating into english (both her examples), while Markyさん has not. Fortunely it's covered in 'A dictionary of intermediate japanese grammar', bought at huge expense & hardly used. It states 4 types based on the Affirmative or Negative predicates: "In S1 dokoroka S2, the distribution of affirmative/negative predicates is as follows: (Affirmative) dokoroka (Affirmative); - dokoroka = 'not just; even' (Affirmative) dokoroka (Negative); - dokoroka = 'far from' (Negative) dokoroka (Affirmative); - dokoroka = 'far from' (Negative) dokoroka (Negative); - dokoroka = 'not just; even' " In the first and fourth examples, the english is 'Not just S1, even S2' In the second and third examples, the english is 'Far from S1, on the contary, S2' >「こんなに成績が悪いと、就職どころか卒業も危ない。」
I notice アニタさん has reversed the order the two clauses when translating into english (both her examples), while Markyさん has not.

Fortunely it’s covered in ‘A dictionary of intermediate japanese grammar’, bought at huge expense & hardly used. It states 4 types based on the Affirmative or Negative predicates:

“In S1 dokoroka S2, the distribution of affirmative/negative predicates is as follows:

(Affirmative) dokoroka (Affirmative); - dokoroka = ‘not just; even’
(Affirmative) dokoroka (Negative); - dokoroka = ‘far from’
(Negative) dokoroka (Affirmative); - dokoroka = ‘far from’
(Negative) dokoroka (Negative); - dokoroka = ‘not just; even’ ”

In the first and fourth examples, the english is ‘Not just S1, even S2′
In the second and third examples, the english is ‘Far from S1, on the contary, S2′

]]> by: marky star http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89228 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:23:53 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89228 アニタさん、 「こんなに成績が悪いと、就職どころか卒業も危ない。」 'when grades are this bad, it's impossible to get a job, let alone graduating!' すげぇ！ that's a great (and scarey) sentence. is that yours or from the book? :shock: ショック！ マーキー アニタさん、

「こんなに成績が悪いと、就職どころか卒業も危ない。」
‘when grades are this bad, it’s impossible to get a job, let alone graduating!’

すげぇ！ that’s a great (and scarey) sentence. is that yours or from the book? :shock: ショック！

マーキー

]]> by: アニタ　ビヤヌエバ http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89200 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:31:21 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89200 thanks for an interesting lesson! as for dokoroka, i have never heard it in actual conversation but I did come across it in my grammar studying (was in the Unicom 文法 book for ２級 JLPT). It was initially a bit confusing to me because in that book they broke down "dokoroka" into having *two* possible usages, and since the book was in all Japanese it was a bit difficult to figure out the rough English equivalent of the 2nd type of usage. The 1st one the Unicom book described was easy to understand and basically translates to "far from (something)" or "on the contrary", as exemplified in this lesson (as in, "far from being healthy, he's actually not.."). The 2nd meaning described in the book was a bit more difficult to translate, but after thinking about it a bit it seems to have the English equivalent of "not to mention" (in the positive sense) or "let alone" (in the negative sense). For example "Being busy, I don't even have time to watch TV, let alone go on a trip" could be translated as "忙しくて、旅行するどころか、テレビを見るひまさえない。" Another example: "こんなに成績が悪いと、就職どころか卒業も危ない。"With my grades this bad, graduating, not to mention finding a job will be doubtful". Anyways, this just my own interpretation, if i got this wrong, someone please correct me! :) thanks for an interesting lesson! as for dokoroka, i have never heard it in actual conversation but I did come across it in my grammar studying (was in the Unicom 文法 book for ２級 JLPT). It was initially a bit confusing to me because in that book they broke down “dokoroka” into having *two* possible usages, and since the book was in all Japanese it was a bit difficult to figure out the rough English equivalent of the 2nd type of usage. The 1st one the Unicom book described was easy to understand and basically translates to “far from (something)” or “on the contrary”, as exemplified in this lesson (as in, “far from being healthy, he’s actually not..”). The 2nd meaning described in the book was a bit more difficult to translate, but after thinking about it a bit it seems to have the English equivalent of “not to mention” (in the positive sense) or “let alone” (in the negative sense). For example “Being busy, I don’t even have time to watch TV, let alone go on a trip” could be translated as “忙しくて、旅行するどころか、テレビを見るひまさえない。” Another example: “こんなに成績が悪いと、就職どころか卒業も危ない。”With my grades this bad, graduating, not to mention finding a job will be doubtful”.

Anyways, this just my own interpretation, if i got this wrong, someone please correct me! :)

]]> by: marky star http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89192 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:18:25 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89192 steveさん、 thanks! As for the relationship between ～どころか (～dokoro ka) and the ところ (～tokoro) you are talking about、I am sure there is an etymological link. I can feel some connection between them, but I think I have to defer to a native speaker on this one... As for ～そう (～sou) and ～がる (～garu), here I can say something... ～そう (～sou) conveys the meaning of 'seems/looks like' or 'on the verge of' ～がる (～garu) conveys the meaning of 'pretending' or 'posing' you mentioned 強そう (tsuyosou) and 強がる (tsuyogaru). these are great words to make examples from, actually, so thank you for chooseing them! :smile: あいつは強そうだね。 aitsu ha tsuyo-sou da ne. That guy looks strong, huh? あいつはつよがるよね。 aitsu ha tsuyogaru yo ne. That guy is pretending to be tough, huh? (we could also translate, that guy is bluffing or faking it) by the way, what i love about this is story is that in 8 days her parents are already freaking out about her. 8 days from home and ママ says 'GET A JOB!' and パパ is in tears. oh the drama!! :lol::lol::lol: マーキー steveさん、

thanks!

As for the relationship between ～どころか (～dokoro ka) and the ところ (～tokoro) you are talking about、I am sure there is an etymological link. I can feel some connection between them, but I think I have to defer to a native speaker on this one…

As for ～そう (～sou) and ～がる (～garu), here I can say something…

～そう (～sou) conveys the meaning of ’seems/looks like’ or ‘on the verge of’

～がる (～garu) conveys the meaning of ‘pretending’ or ‘posing’

you mentioned 強そう (tsuyosou) and 強がる (tsuyogaru).
these are great words to make examples from, actually, so thank you for chooseing them! :smile:

あいつは強そうだね。
aitsu ha tsuyo-sou da ne.
That guy looks strong, huh?

あいつはつよがるよね。
aitsu ha tsuyogaru yo ne.
That guy is pretending to be tough, huh?
(we could also translate, that guy is bluffing or faking it)

by the way, what i love about this is story is that in 8 days her parents are already freaking out about her. 8 days from home and ママ says ‘GET A JOB!’ and パパ is in tears.

oh the drama!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

マーキー

]]> by: Steve http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89039 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 12:45:12 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-89039 Great lesson. I haven't been exposed to dokoroka yet. Explainations in the PDF were very helpful. Is there a corrolation between dokoroka and the tokoro that was in (lower intermediate #8)? Like, they are opposites? I had to listen a little closer to grasp the other grammar point of the auxilary verb garu...that's is attached to talk about the appearance of another person. Is that kind of like -sou? Takasou, Samusou (from beginner lesson #147) Tsuyogaru Tsuyosou would not work? (Sounds strange). I so enjoy these lessons. Keeping up the best I can! Thank You Steve Great lesson. I haven’t been exposed to dokoroka yet. Explainations in the PDF were very helpful. Is there a corrolation between dokoroka and the tokoro that was in (lower intermediate #8)? Like, they are opposites?

I had to listen a little closer to grasp the other grammar point of the auxilary verb garu…that’s is attached to talk about the appearance of another person.
Is that kind of like -sou? Takasou, Samusou (from beginner lesson #147)
Tsuyogaru Tsuyosou would not work? (Sounds strange).

I so enjoy these lessons. Keeping up the best I can!
Thank You
Steve

]]> by: JapanesePod101.com http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-88796 Fri, 02 Mar 2007 09:30:11 +0000 http://www.japanesepod101.com/2007/03/02/intermediate-lesson-47-my-tokyo-traveblogue-day-8/#comment-88796 <p>Mina-san, have you come across the expression dokoroka yet? Have a nice weekend!</p> Mina-san, have you come across the expression dokoroka yet? Have a nice weekend!

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