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March 24th, 2006 | help Need help?

Learn intermediate Japanese with JapanesePod101.com! So what exactly happened in Okinawa? This week we find out what exactly happened! You don’t want to miss this week’s edition of intermediate Japanese.

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Voice Actors: Take, Natsuko | Hosts:
Category: Intermediate Lessons |
Grammar: , , | Function: | Politeness Level:
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This entry was posted on Friday, March 24th, 2006 at 6:26 am and is filed under Intermediate Lessons. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

49 Responses to “Intermediate Lesson #8 - Retaining Counsel!”

avatar JapanesePod101.com says:

皆さん、今日のロケーションはManila・マニラです! Hello to all our listeners in the Philippines! :grin:

avatar Michael D. Cassidy says:

This story reminds me of parties at my karate school.
About a third of the students were Japanese.

avatar steve says:

Great lesson. I find I enjoy these Intermediate Lessons the most. But the word for bloodbath 血祭り now has me imagining some kind of Japanese Horror film ‘Blood Festival’ sounds a lot worse than bloodbath. :twisted:
Anyway…the award for best Podcast Drama, goes too………………… Japanesepod101.com Watchout…NTV will be trying to buy the rights and making it into a TV series :wink:
O-genki de
Steve :-)

avatar RobGillon says:

I also loved this lesson, I find the Intermediate Lessons very fun for using the more advanced constructions, and it’s great to see this stuff alongside everything else. I find the word 血祭り to be quite funny - what with the mental image the word 祭り brings up… then someone says you misheard 血祭り… your mental image would drastically change just because of one little ち!!

Also, what is the difference between 友人 and 友達? is 友人 more formal / for older generations, kind of like (friendly) aquaintance, whereas 友人 is more like mate / pal?

Same question for the difference between 力になる and 手伝う or 助ける?

Thank you :smile:

avatar Hen na Gaijin says:

Hmm, I didn’t know lawyers are also given the title sensei like doctors and teachers. “Hen na Gaijin Sensei” has a nice ring, don’t you think? :cool:

avatar Steve Ostrow says:

Wow…I also enjoy these lessons the most. Even so, I’m learning a lot filling in the “holes” in my education going through the beginner level.
Lots of colorful vocabulary that is useful. It is a nice pace that you are offering these lesson levels (1 intermediate every so often, lots of other tidbits more frequently). Stuff pops up in these comments that are useful, too! Main point…tagaru…new to me! :razz:
Thank You!

avatar RobGillon says:

Yes, I also found tagaru to be extremely helpful. In the past I would have used (verb) tai sou desu, but that construction doesn’t take into account the fact that there may be someone standing with you who just can’t speak Japanese. Very useful!

avatar Matt says:

The dialogue didn’t make sense to me :???:
Could someone explain that to me?

avatar Emma says:

I haven’t downloaded this lesson yet but I can’t wait to find out what has happened in Okinawa!
I really love the intermediate lessons, the story last week was fantastic. This is my first post- I always read the comments every day, but this is the first time I’ve left a message! Thanks again for the awesome lessons, I have felt more confident in speaking Japanese after speaking along with the dialogues and repeating the vocab.
Arigatou Gozaimasu!

avatar Hen na Gaijin says:

Matt, I’m not sure what didn’t make sense to you but what I got was that Yoko took the time to talk to a somewhat egotistical lawyer on behalf of her friends in jail (Mel and the Dean). She explained the drunken adventures of her friends and then was given an exorbitant fee estimate by the lawyer, thus her statement that there are “too many zeros.”

does this help?

avatar Hen na Gaijin says:

Mel should be just fine. After all, he’s a foreigner and everyone knows foreigners are incurably ignorant and silly.

The Dean, however, is going to jail (unless he gives a heartfelt apology, then its ok)

avatar Vicky says:

Have a wonderful weekend everyone!!!

Mata raishuu~~~

avatar Michael D. Cassidy says:

I thought the shark was going to jail for not drinking enough at the party, AND for singing off key.

avatar Michael D. Cassidy says:

For the past half hour, waiting for my wife, I’ve been trying to learn to write the kanji for hana: 鼻. I don’t see how anyone can cram all those strokes into a line space - I think I need a 000000 rapidograph pen.

avatar Jason says:

陽子(ようこ)さん、かわいそう。めんどくさい奴(やつ)らめ、しっかりしなさいよ。

たけさんの「がんばります」は超(ちょう)面白(おもしろ)かったです。 :lol:  たけさんはこの弁護士(べんごし)にぴったりです。戸鍋先生、私達のとんでもない友人共のためにがんばって下(くだ)さい。

I thought the shark was going to jail for not drinking enough at the party, AND for singing off key.

XD

Michael-san, I’m not very fond of 鼻 either. It’s possible to fit it into one space, but it usually takes me a few tries.

Also, what is the difference between 友人 and 友達? is 友人 more formal / for older generations, kind of like (friendly) aquaintance, whereas 友人 is more like mate / pal?

Hmmmm. There doesn’t really seem to be a significant difference between them. Though I would imagine that 友達 is probably used more often.

Same question for the difference between 力になる and 手伝う or 助ける?

You’re really stretching my brain this time, Rob-san. :lol: There does seem to be a difference between them, but it’s extremely subtle. 力になる is like “to be of help.” 手伝い is, quite litterally, “to lend a hand”, and more of a “general use” kinda of word. 助ける means more along the lines of “to save”, and seems to have somewhat of an implication of saving someone from some sort of trouble whether it’s carrying grociers or bailing drunken friends out of jail.

avatar Jason says:

(correction)

手伝い -> 手伝う

avatar Jason says:

(correction 2)

grociers -> groceries

avatar Jason says:

Just as a further example, let’s say we want to put this sentence into Japanese: “I want you to help me with my homework.” I would think the most natural way would be to say:

私(わたし)の宿題(しゅくだい)を手伝ってほしい。

While 力になってほしい might work, it sounds a tad too formal and serious for this situation. I wouldn’t use 助(たす)けてほしい unless the homework was due in like an hour and I hadn’t done any of it yet. However, afterwards you could say something like, 本当(ほんとう)に助(たす)かった, to thank them. “You really saved me/helped me out.”

avatar Scott says:

So something very interesting happened to me the other day that I had to share with you guys. I was talking to one of my classmates about podcasting, and he made this suggestion to me:

“I really like this one podcast about Japanese. These hosts are so good and funny. Have you ever hear of it? Japanesepod101?”

I told him with a smile that not only have I heard of it, but you guys even mentioned me several times before. He was in complete shock about this, and even called me a celebrity.

But this little event just showed me how much you guys have grown. How long has it been? Three months? I used to be the one spreading the word about you guys, but in just three months time, it’s come to a point that now people are recommending you to me!

みなさん、おめでとう。 I’m proud to say, “Yeah, I knew about Japanesepod101 before they were big!” (^_^)

avatar Jason says:

スコットさんは有名人(ゆうめいじん)みたいですよね。 :mrgreen:

avatar RobGillon says:

Jason-san - as always, you’re full of great information. Thanks a lot for the help!

avatar Nathan says:

Rob-san,

Yeah, I think 友達 and 友人 are basically synonyms. As Jason-san mentioned, 友達 is probably used a bit more. Google shows 52.2 million hits for 友人 and 130 million hits for 友達.

Just in case it helps, from the J-J dict:

力になる: to make an effort for the sake of someone; to assist.
手伝う: to help with another person’s work; to help; to assist.
たすける: to lend strength to remove another from a dangerous situation; to rescue.

I think the main difference to notice between 力になる and 手伝う is that 手伝う has a connotation of working together with someone for that person’s sake, while 力になる does not necessarily.

Michael-san,

鼻 is bad, but how about something like 鬱 :wink:

avatar Jason says:

That looks like someone went, “hey. Let’s try to fit all the radicals we can into a single kanji.”

avatar JP says:

Konnichiwa Minnasan,

Kamusta kayong lahat? (How is everyone here?) I haven’t listened to the podcast yet (hehe what’s new) but when I get home, it’ll be the first thing I gotta listen to.

Regards,
JP

avatar Nathan says:

Jason-san,

Yeah, but they were lazy… I bet we could do better :wink:

JP-san,

Mabuti naman, at ikaw?

avatar Michael D. Cassidy says:

So i went looking for one of my Japanese text books, when I was stuidng in college I’d buy any text books I stumbled for extra help to understand, anyway I found a book I bought in used book store and was hoping to read one day. I don’t remember what its about I just bought it. It was printed in the USSR so maybe a marxist text, anyway hopefully someone can tell me what I will one day read:

エウゲーニイ
ボガート

氷 なる人間

The character after mizu is missing because I didn’t bring my kanji book home;

avatar Nathan says:

Michael-san,

That’s a tough one. It’s a Russian name, so I’m having trouble figuring out the correct pronunciation. So far I think I’ve figured out that it’s by Progress Publishers out of Moscow, published in 1976. These publishers did put out a lot of communism related material around that time it seems. The title is “永遠なる人間”, and I believe the correct romanization for エウゲーニイ is Evgenij. That’s all I’ve got so far :wink:

avatar Bob says:

You’ve really outdone yourselves with this script! You keep the dean in character from the previous episode. But if you were to inject a femtomole of reality into this fantastic (root = fantasy) script, the dean would be facing not only the prospect of incarceration, but also an extended period of 就職生活.

I’ve lived in Japan for 18 years, but am still learning new things in every lesson. I’m not sure whether that is a complement to you, or a confession of abject disgrace on my part, maybe a little of both. But your podcasts are helping me shake the calcified deposits off my neural synapses. Just gotta love 血祭り!

avatar Peter says:

皆さん、be back shortly, but just wanted to say to Bob-san, “thanks for setting up the Mac presentation!” I still owe you an email and glad you liked the episode. :wink:

avatar Michael D. Cassidy says:

Thanks Nathan.
My deputy is Russian she might be able to help me figure it out with the Russians notes. It costs me 50 cents.

avatar Jason says:

氷…

The character after mizu is missing because I didn’t bring my kanji book home;

That’s not “mizu” btw. That’s 氷(こおり/koori) = ice.

avatar Jason says:

永遠なる人間

「えいえんなるにんげん」か。それは一体(いったい)。。。?

avatar René Malenfant says:

Generally speaking, 友人 is more formal than 友達.
However, it’s more complicated than this. Unless otherwise indicated, 友人 means “*my* friend”, whereas 友達 simply means “*a* friend” (i.e. either my friend or somebody else’s). Further, as your study of kanji should indicate, 達 represents plurality. Thus, whereas 友達 can be used to signify one or more people, 友人 can only be used to represent one person. The plural form of 友人 is 友人達 (ゆうじんたち). Finally, 友達 can be used in compounds such as 飲み友達 (drinking buddy), whereas 友人 cannot.

If your Japanese is up to par, try:
http://tinyurl.com/mpebs
which is basically a Japanese version of what I just said.

avatar RobGillon says:

René-san - Thank you for that link, it also has some other very interesting questions on there, I’m looking through the other pages of the site right now and learning a lot!

avatar Nathan says:

Yes, I love sites like that. Thank you for sharing that info, René-san!

avatar René Malenfant says:

If you like that, you’ll love this:
http://gogen-allguide.com/

It’s a Japanese etymology website. The listing now is somewhat limited (1,100 words), but growing all the time, and some of the posts are quite interesting.

But most interesting of all is Japanese Wikipedia.
http://ja.wikipedia.org/
It’s the perfect way to get your reading up to par for the level 1 or level 2 JLPT tests, and learn about cool stuff like the history of Mister Donut along the way!

avatar Nathan says:

Thanks for sharing! That first one is great :grin:

avatar Steve Scott says:

I was asking my Japanese roommate about the term “chimatsuri”. He says that the term is not quite the same as the English one. The english term denotes absolute carnage, like trench warfare, or some other massacre.

My Japanese friend says that “chimatsuri” is when a group of people gang-up one someone and beat them up, often to make a statement. Kind of like a Yakuza hit, or getting beaten-up by a gang. I suppose it would also apply to a gang of sharks feasting on drunken swimmers as well.

According to Jim Breen, chimatsuri is translated as “victimization”. This is entirely different from the definition of “bloodbath”. Can anyone clarify this for me?

avatar René Malenfant says:

Steve:
If you have any problems, consult a Japanese-Japanese dictionary. There’s a free one online at:
http://www.goo.ne.jp/

According to goo, 血祭り means:
〔昔、中国で、出陣に際し、いけにえを殺して軍神をまつったことから〕出陣に際して、敵の者などを殺して士気を奮い立たせること。手始めとして敵をほふって気勢を揚げること。
(Coming from an ancient Chinese tradition of appeasing the God of War by killing a sacrifice before departing for battle) The killing (i.e. of an enemy) when an army is departing for battle, in order to raise the morale of the troops. The slaughter/defeat of one’s enemy from the outset, raising one’s spirits.

So it sounds like the figurative use of the word “slaughter” that we have in English. For example, “Last night, The New York Yankees slaughtered The Toronto Blue Jays 14-0.” Or “They slaughtered that poor guy.”

But I’ve never heard the word before, so I’m not sure.

avatar Peter says:

Scott-san, very nice point. And thank you Rene! In my opinion, Rene’s take on the word it perfect. I believe I have even seen it in sports newspapers. However, the sentence “they were slaughtered/they got slaughtered” is passive and as we haven’t covered this, I didn’t want to open up this can of worms. In this context, I think the translation is pretty good. :wink:

Was this helpful?

avatar John C. Briggs says:

I hate to complain, but the PDF has some serious problems. The bottom few lines of the hiragana are missing (presumably cropped by the text box). Also, the translation starts with MEL but the Hiragana starts with ようこ.

If you get it fixed, let me know so I can download it.
Thanks
ジョン

avatar Eran says:

John-san,

Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention and my apologies for the inconvenience. I have alerted the content team and I am sure that they will correct it shortly and post the new PDF.

We really try our best to proofread all content before it’s published but unfortunately from time to time we miss a thing here and there. Luckily we have members like yourself who never let us get a way with anything :grin:

Once again, sorry for the inconvenience.

Eran

avatar John C. Briggs says:

Eran,
I am very impressed that this has been fixed already. I will read it tonight. Also I appreciate the improved “indenting” as this makes it much more readable.
Keep up the good work.
ジョン

avatar John C. Briggs says:

Can someone help translate this quesiton for me.

問題を起こしたのは誰と誰ですか。
もんだいをおこしたのはだれとだれですか。
陽子とメル ・ ようことメル
学長と戸鍋 ・ がくちょうととなべ
陽子と学長 ・ ようことがくちょう
学長とメル ・ がくちょうとメル

avatar kamikazemelon says:

Could someone please inform me of the title of the lovely song in the beginning? The ringtone? And who it’s by, possibly?

avatar JJ says:

The use of CHIMATSURI is totallly unnatural in this dialogue by the way so I would recommend not using it. I think Peter-san wanted to fit in “bloodbath” somehow and mistakenly translated this to CHIMATSURI. CHIMATSURI NI AGERU on the otherhand means to victimise or make a scapegoat of somebody, but is rarely used.

avatar Matthew says:

Hey gang! I know that I’m getting into these lessons quite late, but I have to say that I am loving them. I listen to them all the time to supplement my own research and book-work, and it’s great. One quick question: I have, so far, found 2 typo’s in the pdf files. Since people pay for these, I thought you guys might want to know so you could change them. I personally don’t care, just trying to help out. The one from this lesson is in the vocab section of the pdf where you have べろべろ translated to “beru beru.” I will have to listen to the lesson again, because I can’t remember which one is correct. Anyways, just thought you should know. Keep up the great work! I love it!

avatar JapanesePod101.com says:

Matthewさん、
thanks for the kind words and thanks for the heads up! any time you see a typo, feel free to shoot us an e-mail at contactus@japanesepod101.com and we’ll fix it! どうもありがとうございます!  :dogeza:

avatar Shira says:

I loved this lesson. All my Japanese conversation partners are ladies of a certain age. Amazingly, not ONE of them has found occasion to teach me the word 血祭り。Or for that matter, べろべろ. I enjoy all these lessons immensely. さすがJapanesePod101!!!

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